to think the ageism on here has been disgusting recently

[EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon]

Distaste for the idea of older mothers. Pesky pensioners daring to shop at weekends when they've 'got all week' to do it. Retirement-age people being lambasted for not resigning to free up jobs for younger people. A lack of comprehension as to why older people are even in the workplace at all. Calls for over-80s to be stripped of their driving licences. A solemn assertion from one pp earlier in the year that '60 isn't young. It's old.' like middle age doesn't even exist. And that’s just off the top of my head.

Some people are going to get a shock when they get older themselves, according to some of the comments I’ve seen on this forum recently.

Exactly this. Suggesting any age over 60 is not really that old is just silly. It's not VERY old, but it is fairly old. You may not feel it, indeed I (at nearly 60,) feel 25 in my head, but my birth certificate tells a different story. It tells me I am no longer young - OR middle aged!

I don't know why people are so salty about this. It's really odd! WTF is wrong with ageing?

Why are some people in such denial about ageing? There's nothing wrong with it FFS. Stop talking about it like it's a bad thing. It's a PRIVILEGE that is denied to some people! Have a word with yourselves!

I think that’s what the objection is - the perception that people are saying “ewwww” to the concept of ageing and therefore no one wants to be part of the “old” club. If there wasn’t a feeling of negative around being old then there would be fewer people running screaming in the opposite direction.

I've known too many people to die young, so I have no problem with aging and hope to continue aging for a long time. Aging is a good thing because it means you're alive. Bring it on.

I don't think 60 is old. It's not young, not old. I'm not sure what I think 'old' is. I had this debate with my 70 year old parents. 80 is definitely old. 75 maybe? These days a lot of people are still very active at 70. However, looking at my parents who are now starting to have some issues related to aging, I think, at 70, they are starting to transition to old. I think, at that age, when 'old' kicks in depends on a lot of things. I wouldn't describe some of the more active 70 year olds I know as old yet. Maybe there's some genetic luck in that. But some 70 year olds are showing physical signs of being old, so maybe what is 'old' is fluid, depending on personal circumstances.

Yes of course 60 is old. Is it geriatric? No. But biologically, physically absolutely yes, it is old. No matter what physical feats or mountains may be climbed.

I posted earlier about the general dismissiveness of older people towards younger ones. There is plenty of that in this thread. Myself, I think a fair bit is rooted in envy of youth, it’s optimism and self belief. What could be more sapping to the spirit of youth than to read this kind of kvetching?

I'm 50 and I feel much more comfortable in my skin, confident of who I am, and so much more confident than when I was in my 20s or even 30s. That is one great aspect of getting older, so I don't think it is envy of youth. I much prefer who I am today.

The only thing I can say I do miss from my 20s is how much energy I had. That's reduced but I don't let it hold me back.

Want to add, close to half the friends I had in my 20s and 30s are dead. These days I'm more envious of those who get old. I wouldn't want to go back. If I did, it would only be to change some stuff and do it differently.

These days, 60 is still considered by many to be middle-aged, and 65 is the point at which medically speaking a person is considered to be old.

Mind you, a young person would consider you in your forties to be old. It is all relative.

Thinking your thoughts about what is or is not old is one thing- but the revolting ageism (expressed as contempt, anger, and bitterness towards those who are older and hence more experienced) and the blanket derision of an entire generation (while remaining remarkably ill-informed on that generation's age-range and achievements) which is completely acceptable on MN, despite being against stated guidelines is quite another.

Strange though it might seem to you "retired folks" don't all sit around doing nothing during the week so they can go shopping at the weekend. Many retired people are just as busy as those working - and even if they did sit around doing nothing during the week they are allowed to shop whenever they like.

I get irritated by mums letting young kids run around the shops, getting in the way of others, but I don't police when they should be there.

When I worked I shopped during the week just as much as I did in the weekend. However, fortunately in the real world I've never heard anyone moaning about retired people shopping whenever they feel like doing so, only on MN.

My take on this is that largely older people expect some reverence of experience and age which does not really exist in younger people. I do not think it ever has done in my life; I’m not bothered to think whether a twenty something considers me ancient, I am sure they do. Are we competing, probably not. The dogged insistence of older people that they count because of more years on the clock is wrong, we live in a very tough society where largely worth is now measured by money, possessions, and what you do. This is not s world created by young people but older people, who seem worried now about the materialistic and harsh culture that applies to them when they no longer work. We made this place and our young people. If we get judged, I think it largely because that is the template we have set for ourselves: unkindness, materialism, money driven culture begets people who see no value outside of that. Being old in such a society is effectively to be deemed economically useless in consequence. We made this problem
imo

None of that is relevant -being only your odd opinion - to the prevelance and ugliness of ageism on MN.

"but the trouble is that 'old' is so often used in a pejorative sense, and by people who tend to write off older people"

That doesn't change the facts of life I'm afraid.
I suppose that's why we've now got people using 'older people' for old people. I find it quite confusing because until very recently 'older' meant middle aged. Elderly seems to also be seen negatively and I saw Age UK's website even disliking 'senior' which is a term that was originally used to show respect.

"My parents lived until their late 80s, two of my GPs until their mid 80s - why should I be "old" at 65?"

My great grandmother lived to over 100 with her son, my gf being in his 60s. Her very old age didn't make him not old, did it? And he certainly didn't renounce his old aged pension because he had a mother even older than him so he was not old.

I've heard it several times as well, but I don't think there are any stats to back this up because, as I mentioned, all the surveys/poll/research grouped all old people into one group.

A couple of posts on here have made me wonder if pps think I'm in denial about my own age. I'm not, age is what it is. I simply disagree with some on here re the definition of elderly/old.

I think it explains how we got here, actually. Ageism comes from not valuing people on account of youth, or relative age. The time when there was any perceived idea that being older meant better or more respect worthy seems never to have existed in my lifetime. If younger people are considered disrespectful or rude to a particular group, it’s always worth wondering why. My take is that older people can be self centered in terms of importance. My posts earlier on this thread are that often ageism is the result of an imbalance between groups, that leads to resentment. Mum sent is not an exception

MN has always been rather disgustingly ageist, @EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon

Some people are going to get a shock when they get older themselves, according to some of the comments I’ve seen on this forum recently.

Indeed! I hope that none of them is any kind of caring profession, working with vulnerable elderly.

But getting older is better than the alternative.

All very well in theory. But a bit harsh on 80 year old Pamela who has lived a quiet life, wielding no influence on anything at all outside of her own small sphere, getting on with it within a culture set for her by those who hold the power to do so. Respecting her own elders as was the way then. Sorry Pam, it's all change now! Society doesn't respect life experience anymore, and now you're no longer young, you're pretty much useless.
So don't be surprised when you're met with derision and open hostility. When you're assigned a place in a group comprising of everyone from 60 to 100, male and female, rich and poor, powerful or not, regardless of your race or social or economic position, whether you've benefitted from house price rises or have never owned a brick to your name, doesn't matter.
You're 'old' and all the bad stuff in society happened on your watch. So please don't complain at being called names and blamed for everything. You are reaping what you sowed.

Is Pamela not part of the “hope I die before I get old” generation. Yes she is. This perceived disrespect is nothing new.

I disagree. One rebellious song was not the edict Pamela's generation lived their adult lives by. There's a world of difference between teens and young adults sticking two fingers up at the establishment and their elders, which is a normal developmental stage that we grow out of, and a bunch of middle aged people making silly generalisations about anyone born before 1965 on MN.

You can't use one song by one band as a metric for how an entire generation thinks.

Tbh I didn’t realise how ageist I was as a 20/30 something until I got to an age which could be considered old. So yes they are going to get a shock.

No, she isn't. If Pamela is 80 she was born before the Baby Boomers, and was a member of the Silent Generation.

Well maybe it’s because all of us oldies have had to give up our licences that we can only get to the out of town supermarket at the weekend when our kids can take us 🙄

Roger Daltrey is 80.

Why don’t you all fffffffade away?

Indeed. This perfectly underlines what a pp (I can't remember if it was you) said about people getting chronologies muddled.