Recurring argument

[Honeymonster2]

Im separated from my partner but were still working through our issues. He's an alcoholic that can't give it up yet, although he says he's trying his best and wants to.

He says I can't blame all of our problems on his drinking. He tells me he's really lonely and never feels heard.

Now, to our current issue, I spent a large sum of money for myself (£2,500) 2 years ago and I feel like he brings it up a lot. We both put money towards it. He wants to save around £5,000 for something he's wanted for years, he talks about it almost every day and mentions it in every argument, how I don't help him save the way I do for the things I want for myself or for the children.

We've been on a big holiday and moved house which cost a lot to renovate In the last few years. All of which I researched, booked and organised paying for, he gives a lot financially towards these things. All the while saying he's still not got what he wants.

My argument is that if he wants something he should organise the saving, tell me what's going in and when the goal will be, like I do with my projects, I also say he could have been saving along side everything all along and the money he spent on vodka could of very much helped (got to be around £100 a week on a tough week spent on drink). He says I don't care about him. I say he doesn't need me to hold his hand to get what he wants and if I saw any effort going in I would feel a lot happier helping financially as well.

He also says that if it's something the children want or need it would be done. Like birthdays, they each get nice presents because i strive to make them feel seen and special and I make an effort with decorations and cakes, which he has always hated. He says I should put as much effort in to him and getting him the thing he wants to buy.

He's saved nothing so far.

I know I sound quite cold, but its been years of him saying I'm not giving him as much as everyone else, while I feel like he's not doing much to help himself so why should I? I don't know, I sound nasty reading it all back!

You say he pays towards things...
Well tell him you will open an account,
Both of you put £50 a month in the account.

That is £100 , or 4 years to get the car.
If you can afford more tell him you will match him . That way you can say well you didn't save so I didn't.

Thanks for all your input everyone. This really didn't go how I thought it would haha I was expecting a lot of messages to say how unsupportive and selfish I have been. It's a lot to think about

What does he mean by "his turn". Does he think you should buy him stuff on rotation with the other children?
That he should have a "turn" whereby you spend money on him?

When was the last time he spent significant money - his own money - on something just for you?

Reading through your comments I’m trying to understand why you could possibly think you are being unreasonable and have come to the conclusion that you must have a really really low opinion of yourself. You’ve referred to yourself as ‘awful’ and ‘sounding like a gold digger’ but what you’ve shared actually say the opposite.

You have four children you are taking sole care of and are prioritising their needs, as a parent should.

Your husband is:

• an alcoholic
• has used drugs in the family home (chances are this wasn’t the first time)
• likely has used prostitutes (unlikely that the one time he got caught was the first time he’d messaged one)
• begrudges money being spent on his children’s birthdays
• is upset money is being spent on making your family home livable
• is taking no action to tackle his alcoholism/depression
• holds you responsible for everything wrong in his life
• Thinks he should take priority over your shared children
• does nothing to physically or emotionally support or care for your shared children
• claims he puts you first when actually he puts himself above everyone else
• spends money on alcohol but complains it’s your fault he can’t save up to buy a car (that he doesn’t really need)
• resents you for having saved up for and spent money on something less expensive than a car two years ago
• isnt the worst dad in the world

Have I got that right?

You need to see this man for who he is, you are clearly blinded by some sense of love/loyalty/obligation to him that is stopping you from looking at this situation objectively. You have allowed yourself to be so beaten down by him and are perpetually trying to ‘fix’ him by telling him that he’s right, that you are awful, money hungry, selfish and wrong. You are none of those things and you need to realise that he is adding nothing positive to your life, he is sucking the life out of you. If not for yourself, do it for your children, show them that you are strong and capable, that they really are your priority. Stop trying to save him, nothing you do will ever be enough for him, he needs to help himself. Stop modelling such a toxic relationship to your children, be the mother they need by standing up for yourself and refusing to be this mans verbal punching bag.

Not being the worst dad is not an accomplishment, it is not even the bare minimum that you should be expecting from him. It’s irrelevant that other people you know have partners who are objectively ‘worse’, someone else being shit doesn’t excuse his own shitty behaviour. You asked what others expect of a husband/father and I think most would agree that prioritising their children is first and foremost. That along with not wasting money on addiction that the children are no doubt aware of/have been impacted by. A man should treat his wife/mother of his children with kindness and respect. He should be emotionally and physically available to you and your children, he should provide stability and reassurance, he should be reliable and trustworthy. Your husband is none of these things. These are just the basics you should expect before getting into the nitty gritty of sharing housework, childcare, allowing each of you to have personal time, doing things as a family and as a couple. The fact you think it’s ok to settle for less is baffling to me.

It makes me so sad that you think this behaviour is acceptable and that you’re still trying to appease him even though you have done nothing wrong. You took a positive step by getting him to move out, he’s had 3 months to work on himself and show he’s taking responsibility of his own life but he’s done nothing to improve the situation. I would suggest you need to officially end your relationship and only communicate with regards to co-parenting your children. Do not let him stop paying maintenance, he has a responsibility to your children, stop trying to appease him. Focus on yourself and work on rebuilding your self-esteem. If down the line he manages to get another woman pregnant (although I doubt this as he’s not exactly a catch!) you will deal with it but by then you will hopefully be in a better place to deal with it than you are now.

That is a lie. He may not realise it, but his NUMBER ONE priority is himself.
Specifically getting the drink for himself.

You say he has stopped drinking. That is known as "white knuckling", i.e. gripping on for dear life, by sheer force of will power not drinking.
It won't last.
It is impossible to keep it up.
He will drink again, worse than before, until the next time he "gives it up".
That is the cycle, until he commits to getting to grips with the causes in his own personality.

You really, REALLY need to go to a few meetings of Al-Anon, for family and friends of alcoholics, because you don't seem to really understand what you are dealing with here, the true nature of the alcoholic mind or what the outcomes are likely to be.

@NZDreaming has nailed it.

OP screenshot that message and have it as your screensaver.

Thank you so much for this, I appreciate your time ❤️

If you are supposed to be separated, why are you still arguing about money? And why would your partner expect you to 'help him save' when presumably he has his own money, or the capacity to earn some?

We are separated but we said we still wanted to come back together once we'd managed to achieve some growth as individuals so the talk of money wasn't unexpected... but also he was drunk lol

I really hope you can take this onboard and make your separation permanent. Unless your husband makes some drastic changes the only route for reconciliation is you letting him walk all over you and making you feel less than. Given his lack of action so far it seems unlikely he will change and personally I don’t think I’d be able to forgive many of the things he has done even if he did make changes.

Ending a relationship is never easy but you have to give yourself permission to prioritise yourself. Don’t fall into the sunk cost fallacy- the only thing worse than spending x number of years with the wrong person is spending x number of years plus one day. You’ve said yourself that his leaving made no impact on your workload at home, that should tell you a lot. He is not a good man, husband or father. You and your children deserve so much more and it sounds like your lives would be much calmer without him. You would also regain a lot of emotional time/energy that you are currently pouring into this man who really doesn’t deserve it.

You are not selfish, wrong, cold or any other hurtful thing he might label you as. It’s time to move on and start living for yourself again.

I am glad you are thinking of "growth as individuals".

But don't fall into the trap of worrying about his 'growth' and not yours.
You need to look hard at yourself, with some help.
Get the books suggested upthread.
Start with Al-anon, then also get some professional therapy if you can afford it.

As this thread has shown, your thinking is very distorted. You seem to be emotionally dependent on him. You don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.
None of this is your fault.
What was your parents' relationship like? Your grandparents? Did the adults in your life make you responsible for making them happy?

Paradoxically, you need to put your own wellbeing and growth first, for the sake of your children.
Because the last thing your children need is a mother who lets an alcoholic back into their home to live. OR you split up with him then find yourself another waste-of-space man then you devote yourself to 'making him happy'.

At £100 a week he's spent over £10k in 2 years on booze for himself op.

Step away. No good will come of this relationship if you do decide to try again - his one and only priority is himself until he can sober up.

Can I ask for another bit of advice, how should I go about contacting him about the children? Do I leave it completely up to him to ask about them and arrange visits, do I send little updates about the kids day (like I would normally, such as they went in to school nicely or not etc) do I just respond when he asks? This is a minefield for me and I don't want to get sucked back in, but also, it would break my heart not knowing what the children were up to myself so I don't want to make anything harder for him and the children.

You only contact him about essential things. Kid in hospital. He can't have unsupervised contact. It should be with his mother present. Not you, becuase you don't exist to enable him anymore. Not as and when he can be arsed, to a set schedule. That works around the kids preexisting schedule. If he doesn't show and let's the kids down then he loses access.

You NEED to make it harder for him. You're enabling him. Being an alcoholic, shit dad, shit husband SHOULD be hard. Your wife leaving you becuase you're a bullshit human SHOULD make your life hard. It SHOULD break your heart. That's the whole point. How is he going to be better for himself, for you, for the kids, if he doesn't feel any consequences for his actions?

He is not a positive influence in your children's life. You are not enriching their lives by creating all this mess. He is bringing trauma and instability into their lives and you're allowing it.

Don't send the little updates about the school day. Obviously let him know any major updates and send him the contact details for school so he can get on the newsletters or whatnot. It's not down to you to enable that.

Lay put clearly the contact arrangements that work for you e.g. you have have them every other Saturday and every other Friday for tea. Or whatever it is.
Then if he doesn't turn up, don't say anything just log it as a no show.

If he asks for a different arrangement and it works for you then that's fine. But you need to put on a protective barrier here so keep it factual and business like, don't get drawn into big discussions.

Hi OP,

I'm really sorry that you are in such a hard situation. Your DH has MH problems and addiction problems and that is also really hard for him, but you have done your best and his problems are too great for you to deal with.

I really don't think that he should be saving for a car if he has alcohol addiction problems as he wouldn't be safe to drive.

He needs to get medical help fairly urgently or he will die of the effects of the alcohol.

I think, tbh, you should just answer all questions with "when are you going to get medical help?"

You are going to have to just say it over and over and over again. Nothing else remains to be said at this point, as far as I can see, and anything else that is said is wasting precious time.

If it helps, perhaps you could imagine that he has something like TB or meningitis rather than an alcohol problem. The bottom line is that it is not his fault or yours, but that it is terminal and he needs medical help.

Don't worry about how to send updates about the kid. Just keep asking when he is going to get help.

@Honeymonster2 im hoping your update means you’ve decided to end this relationship permanently.

With regards to co-parenting you may find it useful to use one of the apps available. From my understanding these help with coordinating contact time, children’s activities and ensuring an accurate log of communication. This way communication is entirely about the children, a record is available if needed for future legal proceedings and there can be no excuse on his part about not being kept up to date.

All communication needs to be civil and clear. Any attempt to draw you into conversation about your relationship or behaviour needs to be shut down immediately, every time, with a firm message along the lines of: ‘We are in contact to maintain communication for the healthy coparenting of our children. There will be no discussion of any other topic.’

From what you’ve said I don’t think he’ll actually be bothered about not being kept up to date about their day to day goings on. You also need to make school aware of the situation. It may be useful to seek legal advice with regards to moving towards a formal ending of the relationship. I don’t have experience of this personally but this organisation might be of help. They offer affordable legal advice (with payment plans) as well as tools for navigating various aspects of separation/divorce including custody
www.separatespace.co.uk/
Recently heard about it on a podcast, and they were offering a discount of 20% with code ‘everything20’ ( not sure if it would still be valid).

You can do this but please stop trying to appease him. That is not your job, you tell him when he can have time with the children and he either sees them or he doesn’t. Agree with others that his mother should be supervising these visits. Visits should not be at your house, you do not need to be present and he needs to sort his own living situation to be appropriate for seeing the children. It will be an adjustment for you all but HIS poor decisions and choices have led to this. You have gone above and beyond to make life easier for him but that is no longer your job. No matter how much he complains, calls you names, berates you, pleads, blames you for his situation you need to stand firm.

I agree the alcoholism and depression is not his fault, they are illnesses. However the prostitutes, drug taking and being a shit parent and husband, whilst no doubt influenced by the drinking, cannnot be dismissed as part of his illness. Addiction and mental health issues are very real and can have devastating impacts on someone’s life. However to say that all of his behaviour is out of his control and not his fault is giving him too much credit. He has done nothing to improve his situation (and I know personally how hard it is to do anything whilst living with depression) despite having the support of his wife. He managed to hold down a job and has control enough to limit his drinking on occasion but ‘can’t’ make a GP appointment and won’t let his wife do it for him. You’re right that he does need urgent medical help but OP can’t do anything more for him. The depression and alcoholism don’t excuse his piss poor behaviour of berating his wife for spending money on their childrens birthdays or making their home livable.

I don’t say this to have a go at you @ItsPrettyGoodReally but OP appears to really be struggling with feeling like this is her fault and that if she just tried harder it would make a difference. She has gone above and beyond and what she needs to do is let him go and be strong for herself and her girlfriend. Having empathy for a man who has health issues is one thing but suggesting OP needs to be sympathetic because it’s not his fault is what she has been doing for years and it’s destroying her.

My advice is leave him to it. He's chosen alcohol over his wife and kids. He needs to hit rock bottom before he can even think about getting better. Pandering to him isn't going to help him. I strongly suggest speaking to Al Anon.
He made this decision, it has to be his decision to get better. He is in denial to the severity of this. Pussy footing and making his life easier is just enabling him in his selfishness.
I'm speaking as an alcoholic in recovery myself.

I can agree with this from personal experience.
Find a group for partners of alcoholics. This is what made all the difference in my life because it changed my thinking and my entire view of my partner. The result being that he hasn't had a drink for nearly 3 years.
Seriously. Stop working on him and start working on yourself. The rest will follow or it won't. Either way you will survive. Find that group ASAP xxx

I am not sure how to link threads but there is a really good one on the alcohol support board (under Health) which is for partners/friends/families of alcoholics and I would recommend it - to be fair I think they will say exactly what most people have said here but it’s a good space in which to vent.

I have an alcoholic ex (and I struggle myself from time to time tho I much better now) and he sounded similar - the constant whining and victim mentality- why aren’t people helping him, supporting him etc. Truth was he was an absolute passenger in life, a taker and not a giver, no strength of character. This is no life for you and you should seize on the chance you have now. You’ve moved that much closer to leaving him and you should finish the job. Prostitutes FFS! That is not man worthy of you, your attention or your love. I do mean this very kindly - maybe work on your self esteem, you are holding yourself to a really low bench mark and you deserve much more (no judging, it was this realisation for me that led me to kicking my ex to the kerb where he belonged).

I think I do have low self esteem, but I always have since being a kid, I was very very overweight until this year. I have told him this afternoon that I am done and I am so sad about it. I was so proud to have a together family, like I had growing up, in an area where that is really rare and now I feel like I've taken that away from my children. I never wanted them to say 'at dad's house' etc. But I have to show them what isn't acceptable. I kind of wish they were older so I could explain, but on the brighter side they're so young they won't know a difference in time.

I told my ex he was having the kids on particular days and also told him how much maintenance he would pay. I think my ex just wanted to merrily fuck off into the sunset and I was not standing by to let that happen.

You have done a really brave thing. There is no shame in acknowledging when something isn’t working - and it isn’t you that didn’t make it work. Holding onto an ideal is really understandable but here, it was just that - a dream and you thought you could make it happen by sheer force of will when it was only ever in his hands. If I were you, I would feel even prouder and stronger today.

Well done @Honeymonster2, it would have taken a lot of courage for you to tell him it’s over.

It’s understandable that you are sad, you need to allow yourself time to grieve. Grieve for the dream of what could have been in the future and the relationship you thought would be forever. It’s ok to be sad or disappointed, scared, angry or uncertain. This will take as long as it takes but one day you will see so clearly that you have made the right decision for you and your children. You will recognise how difficult and sad he was making your lives and you will realise that you deserve so much more than he ever gave you. You will also see that it was him and his poor choices that resulted in the end of your marriage, you gave it everything you could.

I hope, for all your sakes, he gets the help he needs but he is not your responsibility. You are protecting your children and yourself and that can only be a positive.

i know im just a stranger on the internet but I’ve felt so sad reading about your situation and am so proud of you for being brave and standing up for yourself. You are so much stronger than you know!