Recurring argument

[Honeymonster2]

Im separated from my partner but were still working through our issues. He's an alcoholic that can't give it up yet, although he says he's trying his best and wants to.

He says I can't blame all of our problems on his drinking. He tells me he's really lonely and never feels heard.

Now, to our current issue, I spent a large sum of money for myself (£2,500) 2 years ago and I feel like he brings it up a lot. We both put money towards it. He wants to save around £5,000 for something he's wanted for years, he talks about it almost every day and mentions it in every argument, how I don't help him save the way I do for the things I want for myself or for the children.

We've been on a big holiday and moved house which cost a lot to renovate In the last few years. All of which I researched, booked and organised paying for, he gives a lot financially towards these things. All the while saying he's still not got what he wants.

My argument is that if he wants something he should organise the saving, tell me what's going in and when the goal will be, like I do with my projects, I also say he could have been saving along side everything all along and the money he spent on vodka could of very much helped (got to be around £100 a week on a tough week spent on drink). He says I don't care about him. I say he doesn't need me to hold his hand to get what he wants and if I saw any effort going in I would feel a lot happier helping financially as well.

He also says that if it's something the children want or need it would be done. Like birthdays, they each get nice presents because i strive to make them feel seen and special and I make an effort with decorations and cakes, which he has always hated. He says I should put as much effort in to him and getting him the thing he wants to buy.

He's saved nothing so far.

I know I sound quite cold, but its been years of him saying I'm not giving him as much as everyone else, while I feel like he's not doing much to help himself so why should I? I don't know, I sound nasty reading it all back!

Well, now that all the details, or seemingly the most important ones have come out OP, like everyone else I think that it's time to completely end this relationship. How often does he actually see the kids, and play with them, or does he use them as an excuse to weedle his way into the house from time to time? I can't believe that you would even consider telling him not to bother contributing towards your children's upkeep. I don't think you're selfish in any way, you've just been bamboozled into believing the words of an alcoholic.

I would speak to him today, tell him that you've been to seek advice, don't tell him from where, and that you've now realised that the relationship is wrong for you on so many levels, that it's time to draw a line under it, and end the misery for both of you. Tell him you won't be seeing him or taking his calls, texts, etc. in future, and that if he wants to see the children it will need to be organised through the courts, with them having full knowledge of his alcoholism.

I know how hard it is to end a relationship OP, but for your own sake and more importantly for your children's, you MUST end this NOW! Otherwise you will stay in this continuous loop, and will find yourself coming back to MN in 2 or 3 years time, if not sooner, asking for advice again, only by that time you'll have been even more beaten down, and you kids will be one step nearer to understanding that their father is an alcoholic. Posters like me will read it, and say 'aren't you the one who asked for advice about this 2/3 years ago?' and you will feel even more of a fool. You've done the hardest part already really, by kicking him out of the family home, now you just have to say THE END! You CAN do this OP, and I'm sure that everyone who has read your post will be rooting for you. Go on, make a new and better life for you and your kids, YOU and THEY deserve it!

Asl him if he wants to to wipe his bum every time he goes to the toilet because you do that for your kids too?

Or ifhe needs you to chop up his meals into little pieces because you do that for the kids?

Or if he wants to never have sex with you again because you don't do that with your kids either.

You don't sound awful to me at all. You sound if anything a bit like someone who should have put her foot down ages ago. Alcoholism aside, because I have full sympathy for how hard it is, he sounds like a twat who doesn't want to contribute to the practicalities of family life.

His number 1 priority is alcohol not you, not your kids, not saving money for a car that he will probably write off driving drunk.
Have you spoken to Al Anon? They are not AA they are to give you support.

He is an alcoholic and his great plan of going cold turkey isn't going to happen, he doesn't want to stop drinking, it's all bullshit and excuses. AA do online meetings if he doesn't want to sit in a group setting in a church hall.
What has he actually done to address his alcoholism?

Oh come on, he's an alcoholic and won't get help; he pisses money up the wall on booze; he did drugs in the living room; he messaged a prostitute for sex; he whinges and whines because you apparently aren't making buying him a car a priority.
He could save for the fucking car if he wanted to but I wouldn't be helping him with that. He'll need to pay the running costs of the car as well and when's he going to drive it if he's drinking all the time.

I hope you see sense and make this separation permanent.

He thinks that because he put some money (although munimal effort by the sounds of it) towards something for HIS OWN CHILDREN that in return you should put some money towards his car?! Because he's too heavy to be allowed on the kids slide is it? Because he doesn't want to play in the garden? Waaa waaah it's NOT FAIR!!!!

What. A. Baby.

And no, you can't make him happy, that is entirely his responsibility.

Being harsh, all you are doing by even listening to his shit is enabling him to carry on giving you responsibility and completely avoiding it himself. So stop. You are clearly a terrific Mum and your energy needs to go 💯 into the five of you. I know you would like your kids to have a happy sober, engaged dad too, but nothing you can do can deliver that for them, only he can make that happen.

he says I'm his number 1 priority but the children are mine and always have been, so he says for him it's me, the kids, himself. And for me it's the kids, me and then him and that hurts his feelings.

Does he not see that you should both be prioritising the kids - the vulnerable small beings that you have joint responsibility for? And that for all he says he prioritises the kids, and you over himself, he's spent a fortune on booze, and objects to you doing things for the children - so whilst his words are you/kids/him his actions are him/him/him

But he sees it as he's bottom of the list again and I should put as much money and effort in to his wants as I do the house and kids.

Does he put as much money and effort into the kids as you do? Or are you having to put in extra because he doesn't (I know the answer - his actions clearly aren't putting the kids first). The effort he doesn't put into the children/house you have to make up. You would have capacity to put more in for him if he put more in for the kids. There's only so much of you to go around, and kids have to take priority.

I'm going to be honest with you here OP, because I lived with and had DS with a functioning alcoholic.

When we spilt up I ran round like a blue arse fly, trying to help him, enabling his relationship with DS and I had all the promises of he was trying to stop drinking. He felt so alone ... Just like yours.

Alcoholics are selfish and will say anything to just carry on as they are. Not going to the doctor, not liking the group set up ... it's all just excuses because as long as you continue to enable him, he will just carry on, not taking any responsibility for himself and fucking up everyone and every thing around him.

I went no contact with mine. I blocked his number, told him he was genuinely on his own and was getting nothing from me. What he did then was up to him.

He went to the doctor, he went to AA, both things he couldn't possibly do before and he's been sober now for 13 years. We didn't get back together, that was never happening, but he's stepped up beyond my wildest dreams. He's been a brilliant Dad to DS and a great friend and co-parent for me.

It feels wrong, you don't want to turn your back on him but OP you need to now be cruel to be kind. He needs to sink or swim on his own, so long as you're there, he will not stop drinking.

This arguement is pathetic and absolutely not the problem here.

That's how I feel I think, I give all of myself to the kids and house that by bedtime, I don't have time or energy to give him. I'm exhausted all the time, and after he left, it didn't get any harder. The physical load and mental load of the kids didn't change at all, which showed me there was not much help before? What do other men do in their homes? He's not as bad as some of the other dads at the school gates I hear about through the mums. But what is normal?

I've literally never heard of something more pathetic. What a baby he is! He's literally asking to be parented by you with parity to your actual children.

Please listen to this.

He’s never going to take responsibility for himself and he’s not YOUR responsibility.

Keep your life stable for your children.

he feels pushed out because he says I'm his number 1 priority but the children are mine
Not true. His number 1 priority is alcohol. That's why he doesn't have money to buy things.
He's a lost cause OP because he won't get help with his alcoholism. Instead he wants you to "help" him with it but rejects everything you suggest.
The rest of the "help" he wants from you is for you to give him money.
It's all about him. This marriage is dead in the water and your best bet would be to end it now while you're separated. All he will do if you continue talking is whine about you not giving him money.

I'm going to throw this out here OP. How long were you together before you had kids OP? Did you do everything for you both as a couple before the kids? Did you do all of the housework and organising when it was just you two? Were you essentially his mother before you had kids?

Then after you had kids you had to do everything for them because he couldn't/wouldn't didn't? Even though you expected/hoped he would step up as a father and do what came so naturally to you all of the time? Then that's when his drinking really ramped up (even though it had always been there, just not as bad)?

That was my relationship with my ex. I was his replacement mum. Then the kids came along and I couldn't be his mum anymore when I could barely look after myself. And he hated me for it. He found a new girlfriend/replacement mum and left me for her.

I'm further down the line in our separation now. My question to you would be, why do you even care what his point of view is? Are you hoping that your relationship can be fixed? He is broken and he needs to fix himself. You cannot do that for him. He needs to learn to love himself and fix himself. You need to learn to love yourself and fix yourself too. The only way your relationship will survive is if you sacrifice yourself to do it. Do you really want that?

Read Codependent no more and Women who love too much if you haven't already. Get yourself to Al anon (I only went once it was a bit happy clappy for me but still give it a go). Focus on yourself. He is his own problem. I'm just glad my ex has someone else to leach off now so he hasn't come back sniffing around.

That all sounds about right to be honest and he has a not great relationship with his mum as well so all makes sense. Do you have children with your ex? the thought of him moving on makes me feel sick, he promised me he would get a vasectomy as I promised him I'd be sterilised in my c section (a joint choice to have no more children together or otherwise) and he didn't follow up, so now the thought of him having another family hurts so much, I know I can't control him or what he does but I'm just being honest about that. I know I shouldn't really be thinking about that right now.

The physical load and mental load of the kids didn't change at all, which showed me there was not much help before? What do other men do in their homes? He's not as bad as some of the other dads at the school gates I hear about through the mums. But what is normal?

I can't speak to what is normal - when I ended it with my ex, I found it easier as at least I was only looking after myself and the kids and not doing so much for him too...

Mind you, my friends were shocked at some of the things I'd grown used to, so I think mine was one of the ones at the bottom (TBH, your DH sounds not so far off either)

He ducked out of vasectomy/any responsibility for contraception too, and I was shit scared of getting pregnant again (2 EMCSes, plus I was feeling lost in house/kids/job and didn't want another baby to extend that longer than it already was), so he hated that too - he was inclined to try and get out of using condoms (although only with me, not with the prostitutes/gay club hookups.. he alleged at least after I found out about them - yeah.. bottom of the barrel he was it turns out)

You’re not his mum. His number one priority is himself I think, one of those men that can’t understand why everyone doesn’t put him first.

His commitment is to the bottle and himself. Take you and dc and leave him to it.

The thought of him moving on makes you feel sick?

I'm sorry OP but he already has something else in his life. Booze. You are second to alcohol. So he has "moved on" already. You've kicked him out and have noticed no difference in the household load.
What is he bringing to your relationship? You are worth more than this. As a PP said, you have to learn to love and prioritise yourself and right now you can't see that crumbs from his table is not what you should accept. This man is not good enough for you. You deserve better

I wouldn't worry about him moving on. I doubt anyone else would be interested.

Zoom out a minute

Alcoholic in active addiction wants to buy a car. How is that likely to work out if he gets one?

The bigger issue here is that you're still entertaining his bullshit.

Cut him off until he's been sober for a good long time

You need to wake up about the reality here, he is not a good person to be around children and you're deluded if you think you can change him.

He isn't ready to stop drinking so its going to keep getting worse until he hits rock bottom, makes a choice to stop ... Or dies.

@Honeymonster2 you don’t sound remotely awful. Please don’t say that … you are not. This is a difficult situation all round and you’ve borne the brunt of it. Kids don’t buy their own cakes and presents - he’s being envious and ridiculous. Yes he can save up if he can be bothered. Don’t take the bait.

@Honeymonster2 we do have kids together. I decided I was done having kids when I was pregnant with my second though and I would never want to have any more kids.

I have thought about him having kids with his new woman (I think she is younger than me). But good luck to her if they do because it will be her raising them, not him.

The thing that hurts me is that he has now stopped drinking (But he is a dry drunk and not done it with any support to fix his mental. He's still grumpy and miserable about everything). It does make me sad that he couldn't get his act together and sober up for me. I sometimes blame myself for his drinking (even though his entire family are alcoholics). But I see now we weren't right for each other. I am focusing on myself and am intentionally single while I fix my self esteem. From what I can see of his new relationship, it is very similar to how we were when we started dating. I don't want to say he is making the same mistakes even if he is. I am just glad he is in a decent place so he can be there for our kids.

Not RTFT so apologies if I’m repeating. You need to break ties completely IMO.

I was married to an alcoholic and no matter how much help I gave him, it didn’t make any difference because he didn’t actually want to help himself, despite his protests to the contrary.

He will blame you of course - mine did.

I ended up kicking mine out and he had to sleep in his van (he was also violent when drunk) so I had no qualms about kicking him out even though we were joint tenants at that point.

You need to concentrate on you and the kids.

You can’t help him. You could try, but you would only be enabling him.

I think it would be a huge mistake for you and your children if you get back together with this man. He has crossed so many lines, and he still isn’t taking responsibility for his actions. He is showing no signs of being able to function like a responsible adult. The only thing you can change is your response to the situation.

A man like this should have one choice in front of him:
a) Grow up. Put his children first, whether you are together or apart. Commit to supporting them, straighten out the drinking, learn how to do a simple budget and set up a direct debit to savings (FFS).
Or
b) Fuck right off. His drinking, drugs, childish attention seeking and whining aren’t doing anyone any good.

Instead, as so often, he goes for c) - hang about whining about how shit his life is, and it’s your fault. He’s around because he wants a scapegoat instead of taking responsibility.

Women are always being advised to get therapy on here but I think there seem to be many men who require quite intensive therapy - and its main theme should be She’s Not Your Mother.

This man deserves precisely NOTHING from you. Nothing. He’s a bottom dwelling, emotionally abusive scumbag. Jesus. I hope you see that soon. Give him nothing further, including your headspace.