That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

[SpikyCoconut]

My Mum has booked this restaurant and asked if I want to come along.

Surely the chef should know this?

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk/

Wibu to get in touch with them and ask if it is actually a parmesan substitute (in which case it should be labelled correctly!) Or if they can develop a different dish that actually IS vegetarian? There are two dishes with parmesan on the vegetarian menu.

Since most humans, birds, fish, and animals are partly composed of bacterial matter, maybe we should label ourselves prokaryotic-mammals? We could throw in viruses and maybe even parasites too in the interests of accurate labeling. We are all ecosystems.

Bacteria are not animals.

I got vegan marshmallows. I THINK it was Morrison's but don't quote me. Definitely a big supermarket chain.

They were pretty tasteless but nice with some melted vegan chocolate!

Parmigiano Reggiano is the only type of parmesan that you can be certain is made with rennet.

Outside of AOC or PDO registered food products you can't be certain of ingredients used in processing. As a rule, rennet is more expensive than other means of curdling milk in cheese production, and manufacturers tend to prefer low costs.

Fine for veggies. Not strictly okay for vegans.

https://www.veganfriendly.org.uk/is-it-vegan/avocados/

And we are not fully 'human' either.
There isn't the hard and fast divide between life forms on earth that some vegetarians and vegans think there is.

YANBU its shocking how often dishes labelled as veggie have Parmesan in, and then when you ask if it is veggie Parmesan the waiting staff/ chef don’t know (therefore it probably isn’t if it’s the same as what they are using for non veggie dishes). It’s really bad - everyone has the right to know what is in the food they are eating, regardless of the reason and a chef should know what is in their dishes.

as a general rule I don’t touch veggie dishes with Parmesan (unless at a veggie restaurant) or I ask for it to not be added if it is just on top. I’ve been to the restaurant you’ve mentioned OP, and generally the restaurants and country pubs in and around Huddersfield are bad for veggie options (and impossible for vegan!). - I usually go for a curry or for Mexican!

what also pisses me off is when the veggie or vegan option is when they just remove things from the dish (meat, fish, cheese etc) and don’t replace it with anything else. And then you’re charged the same price for half a meal and you’re still hungry!

So a vegetarian could eat honey but not a vegan?

I am pretty sure vegetarians don't eat vegans 🤣 misses point of thread

@Velvian
marks and Spencer’s do vegan marshmallows!

also Tesco and Morrisons both do their own range of vegan pesto now - it’s pretty good and half the price of the sacla stuff.

and if you want a vegan Lea and Perrins options Hendersons relish is vegan (and superior!!) x

@VJBR , I don't want to eat fake milk, fake cheese, fake meat etc.
Something like 'Feuile de Brick Parcel Filled with Goats Cheese & Caramelised Onion with Mediterranean Vegetables & Pesto Dressing (Vegan Upon Request)' without the cheese isn't exactly appealing.

It's Feuille de brik not Feuile de Brick so it's also not suitable for pedants.

Definition of an animal was respiration , reproduction, movement , consumption of food ( plants don’t do the last two) . So bacteria fall more within the animal than the plant kingdom ( as do fungi).

Viruses are something else.

Frankly I find most vegan food unappealing and not that healthy. Two much salt is often used to give it flavour. Filo pastry with Mediterranean veg, caramelised onion and pesto sounds pretty good compared to some vegan dishes I’ve seen.

Yes, still wondering about avocados and mushrooms

You are probably thinking of protozoa. Bacteria don't generally ingest food. And unicellular algae can move about. Bacteria and fungi don't really fall in either kingdom. I am less sure about protozoa, but bacteria aren't protozoa.

I would take it as vegetarian. It sounds like you want vegan. 🤔

There are 7 pages on why Parmesan is not vegetarian.

There are so many typos and spelling mistakes on that website. Attention to detail is definitely not important to them!

I stand (somewhat) corrected. See link.
Not trying to offend, but I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect restos to cater to all types of vegetarianism. It's not unreasonable to ask if a dish can be made a certain way to suit preferences, but can't be expected to be perfect. It would probably be best to find out and arrange in advance.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/do-vegetarians-eat-cheese#vegetarian-status

@SpikyCoconut YANBU to tell them, of course you’re not. YABU to start a post on mumsnet, including a link to the restaurant, and ask if you should tell them or not. Use common sense and just do it! It feels like you’re trying to name and shame here otherwise any not just describe the menu item rather than post a link?

@TomatoSandwiches yes, exactly. A vegan will not eat anything produced by an animal.

A vegetarian will, but they won't eat something from the animal's flesh/that the animal had to die for the production of.

@SirAlfredSpatchcock I am not sure I saw that thread but honestly I'd rather go hungry than consume a fish! Such an odd thing for posters to suggest.

I agree with you about that-you're eating flesh! That's not vegetarian! Is it because it isn't a 'Land Creature'?
@ItsNotAShopItsAStore Yes, seafood is such a poorly regulated industry that does so much damage, even if one isn't so empathic with what the actual animal goes through to produce it.

@Snooglequack that is true however a vegetarian by definition wouldn't eat rennet.

@SnakesAndArrows I have noticed Brexit has had that affect on a lot of 'label' matters too.

@MyDogsLikePaddleBoarding exactly! It doesn't fill one with confidence in their knowledge of their 'product' does it? Are they aware for allergies etc?I'd not eat at somewhere that didn't demonstrate diligence.

@rickandmorts haha really? I am not that local. Is it one of 'those' restaurants the is reportedly 'naice' but is 'all mouth and no trousers'?

@CurryOnRegardless no I am not. They shouldn't be doing this IMO, and their page is in the public domain, and the thread wouldn't be very interesting if people couldn't see what I meant.

@kikisparks I agree, It's a fact-but it still doesn't negate a different fact, being that there is a known definition of vegan and same vegetarian-parmesan is not vegetarian.

@ErrolTheDragon yes, had it stated 'Italian hard cheese' fair enough.

@longdistanceclaraclara I am not 'riled up', at all. It was a simple question.

@northernballer others have covered it well but some sauces have fish in them (I bought an innocuous looking tomato sauce once that had anchovies). meat isn't an allergen generally, so it won't be in bold on ingredients lists. Most things have a 'v' on them but if you buy bulk ingredients and such it is more tricky. Overall though, just do your best, we all make mistakes. Wine/beer-there's a website called 'barnivore' which is helpful and some alcohol has gone along with the vegan movement and is labelled clearly now.

@SnakesAndArrows that is what I did assume, but I still can't find the crab starter! What menu is that on please?

@NotTHATMelania I wasn't complaining that the dishes couldn't be made vegan, I was annoyed that dishes were labelled vegetarian, when if they contained an animal-flesh related product, they actually were not.

@ArabellaFishwife Exactly. People generally don't need to know these things.

A chef in an apparently more-than-bog-standard restaurant most definitely should! It's literally their job.

@ItsNotAShopItsAStore which episode is that!? I want to watch it!

@MasterBeth very true. How much would that cost to make at home? £2?

Traditional Turkish delight shouldn't have gelatine anywhere near it. It's made with cornflour! So vegetarian and vegan. I know that chocolate covered stuff has got gelatine in it, but I avoid it as it's all kinds of wrong... (Neither vegetarian nor vegan, just can't stand it.)

A recipe.
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/turkish-delight

And shop bought stuff.
www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-rose-lemon-turkish-delight/899820-810132-810133

One of the reasons some vegetarians are OK with Parmesan is because rennet is a by-product of the meat industry rather than a product. Like leather. It comes from the death of an animal, but the animal didn't die to produce it. A lot of people believe that if you are going to kill an animal, you should use as much of it as possible.

So it really depends on why you are vegetarian/vegan and what your ethical stance is. Not all vegetarians abstain from consuming by-products, just meat.

In saying that, I don't know how many restaurant chefs put that much thought into it. They probably just think cheese = vegetarian.

@SpikyCoconut The crab dish is on the main 'casual dining' menu. Labeled as vegetarian but not as shellfish! I'm confused.

If it's anything other than genuine, AOC Parmigiano Reggiano, chances are high that it's not made with rennet.

Parmesan comes from a wide variety of sources. The majority of cheeses are made using non-rennet coagulants.

True. That's not unreasonable.

But the OP and many others here are probably making a huge mistake in assuming all parmesan is AOC Parmigiano Reggiano.

The consumer could do some research and ask the kind of questions that would clear up the matter.