That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

[SpikyCoconut]

My Mum has booked this restaurant and asked if I want to come along.

Surely the chef should know this?

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk/

Wibu to get in touch with them and ask if it is actually a parmesan substitute (in which case it should be labelled correctly!) Or if they can develop a different dish that actually IS vegetarian? There are two dishes with parmesan on the vegetarian menu.

It's really strange that people get so upset by what other people do or don't eat! I'm veggie for the same reason.

The only thing that should be talked about in this thread is about the incorrect labelling in the restaurant. Of course labelling should be correct.

Remember the outcry with the horse meat scandal years ago, when things that should have been beef turned out to be horse? People were absolutely up in arms about it. As I said before, personally I think if you eat meat, it shouldn't really matter what animal it comes from, but that isn't the point. The point is that something was labelled as beef, and therefore it should have been beef, and not some other random meat.

I haven't seen anyone on here claiming to be superior because they're vegetarian as was mentioned a few posts back. I'm certainly not, and never try and impose my particular beliefs on anyone. I just want something that is vegetarian to actually be vegetarian. It doesn't matter if people agree or disagree with vegetarians, think they're hypocrites etc etc. But labels should be correct. It can be dangerous when they're not, especially for people that don't eat meat or dairy for allergy/intolerance reasons rather than any other reason.

I think it's really sad that these threads always become so aggressive towards people who have chosen to be vegetarian or vegan for whatever reason. There's just no need. I've been vegetarian for 40 years, and have two happy meat eating grown up children, and a fully meat eating husband. I don't diss their choices, just like they don't diss mine. It's anybody's right to eat or not eat whatever they want, but people should be able to trust labelling to correct.

@Demonhunter , my concern is more that something is described as being free from something.

I know 2 people with severe allergies. If you've seen a friend have an anaphylactic reaction to an ingredient, it sharpens your focus.

I can agree with you on that. I think free from should 100% be a case being no danger that any ingredient has been hidden and no cross contamination was possible. My friend has a severe allergy (requiring epipen) to certain seeds and has to be so careful in case there has been the slightest cross contamination. I see places being very lax when it comes to gluten too, not understanding the damage it can do.

Highly unlikely. Most cars do not have leather seats

I doubt vegetarians would have a problem with paying a lot more for dairy products in order to care for animals in their retirement. Most people that consume dairy are meat eaters so I doubt they’ll pay the extra.

Well said.
Dictating your beliefs and shaming people for their choices just gives vegans and vegetarians a bad name!

They'd have already moved to buying milk and other dairy from high welfare, calf at foot dairies if they were willing to pay more. You'd see no vegetarians buying cheap supermarket dairy. Many customers of my local dairy are omnivores, yet willing to pay for higher welfare.

And here’s the location of calf at foot dairies for those who are interested.
They don’t all deliver unfortunately

That's a useful website, thought I'd add the link.

https://www.cowcalfdairies.co.uk/directory

Looks like a few deliver nationwide. A friend also buys milk fortnightly and freezes it. Other dairies like this one are not strictly calf at foot but do not separate newborns and keep at least some retired cows on farm. https://www.theladiesorganickefir.co.uk/our-ladies-and-calves

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It’s you that seems to be missing the point. The point is that food should be accurately labelled/described. If something is on a vegetarian menu, it should be vegetarian, not vegetarian apart from the Parmesan. If a meal is on a gluten free menu, it should be gluten free, not gluten free apart from the breadcrumbs coating it etc.

(I know I'm missing the point, but surely the calves are killed as a by-product of using the milk meant for them to make any cheese, so this all seems a bit of a hair-splitting discussion anyway...)

Not so, @ThursdaysMonkey . The milk is vegetarian but the calf's stomach enzyme isn't.

From a 'welfare' POV, the calf is dead anyway, but if the rennet is used to make cheese, the cheese isn't vegetarian.

I think this is what happens on all vegetarian or vegan threads.

The bottom line is that food should be accurately labelled/described.

Yeah they don't care about the welfare of the cows being used for their cheese or that the milk is produced by them being pregnant and tje distress of having the calfs taken away and slaughtered or destined for a life the same as their mothers, they just care that the enzyme comes from the calf's stomach 🤯

I suspect that some of the ones who argue with the vegetarians are omnivores or vegans.

And I'm assuming do everything to the nth degree themselves.

They don't make some effort towards 'saving the planet ' - they either do all the things or none of the things. Because clearly imperfect action isn't enough, it's all or nothing!

Anyone doing anything that helps the planet or improves animal welfare should be commended. Not criticised for the things they don't do. Someone who only eats only fish, or dairy, or just white meat, is still doing a lot more than those who do nothing.

"I recycle, don't buy plastics, use reusable nappies and sanpro, spend no more than 3 minutes in the shower, compost food waste, cycle to work, don't own a car etc."
"You went on a plane last summer. Do you know how much damage planes do to the environment? Shame on you."

Eff off, arrogant gits.

The metal gymnastics it must take to convince yourself you're about animal welfare, while still being complicit in the dairy and egg industry is unbelievable. It's like saying "well my perfume isn't cruelty free because I don't like the smell of the cruelty free ones, but my skin cream is cruelty free because I care about animal welfare"
People will say and do anything to try and justify not eating meat but still eating dairy and mass produced eggs, because they're either paying lip service to animal welfare or do feel guilty but aren't willing to change.

Unfollowing this now.

They're still doing more than those who do nothing.

You could even argue that any vegan who owns a pet doesn't care about animal welfare because they contribute to the demand for captive-bred animals. All those hamsters in tiny cages and fish in stupid bowls you've convinced yourself are living their best life in unnatural environments just for your pleasure. No one needs a pet.

Very, very few people are really in a position to criticise anyone else.

Not to mention the vegans who put their carnivore pets on vegan diets...

Plenty of omnivores are doing more than nothing. There is not a simple scale of omnivore-vegetarian-vegan in animal welfare. An omnivore may eat the smaller amount of dairy they can afford from a local farm where calves are kept with mum, ex dairy beef, local backyard eggs. A vegetarian may eat large amounts of cheap supermarket dairy and mass produced 'free-range' eggs. Omnivore does not equal doing nothing.

Then there's the ridiculousness of those who don't eat red meat but eat chicken that can barely support it's own weight and is raised in horrific conditions.

I didn't say omnivores do nothing. Anyone who does something is doing more than those who do nothing. Whether that be choosing free-range eggs, or adopting ex-battery hens, or sourcing meat from reputable sources, or only eating what you can catch yourself etc.

There is not a simple scale of omnivore-vegetarian-vegan in animal welfare.

That's my point. No one should be looking down on anyone else's efforts/choices.

That's my point. No one should be looking down on anyone else's efforts/choices.

It's not looking down on anyone to say that eating dairy but not a byproduct of the dairy industry doesn't help as an effort though.