That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

[SpikyCoconut]

My Mum has booked this restaurant and asked if I want to come along.

Surely the chef should know this?

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk/

Wibu to get in touch with them and ask if it is actually a parmesan substitute (in which case it should be labelled correctly!) Or if they can develop a different dish that actually IS vegetarian? There are two dishes with parmesan on the vegetarian menu.

@NeverEnoughPants if only called Parmesan or similar it can use non-animal rennet and is not subject to the same rules as Parmigiano Reggiano. Lots of Italian producers now making vegetarian Parmesan, for example:
https://www.belgioioso.com/foodservice/p/1-24-lb-vegetarian-parmesan-whole-wheel/

or these:
https://www.albionfinefoods.com/parmesan/c/21

ocado do sell some veggie hard cheeses too.

@SpikyCoconut I’m not a chef and I’m not veggie but if I ran a restaurant then I’d make sure I knew what I was serving my customers and they could be confident in my labels. I buy veggie cheeses because I don’t see why animal products in cheese is needed.

@Demonhunter , I'm not against others eating meat. The cows probably end up as pet food or something.

@IAmNotASheep , I probably wouldn't go there because of the menu being so uninspiring.
If I went, I wouldn't have soup because not only do I not like soup, but it could have chicken stock in it.

😳🤯
good point, especially as the restaurant clearly hasn’t got a clue !

Vegans don't use any animal products. Don't eat honey, no leather, silk, cotton. Even in all these posts Mumsnetters can't agree on what a vegetarian is.

I disagree.
But then I don’t believe in dictating to others how people wish to live their lives, everyone has a choice and whilst some choices I find upsetting….including plastic grass, gas guzzling cars, home heating at high temperatures, not walking enough, using aeroplanes, wearing clothes containing plastic, buying processed foods, building new ‘detached’ homes and garages, and killing animals for fun or food etc etc etc etc …………I don’t chose to dictate. Everyone has a choice and thank goodness some people chose to, in some small way, make sacrifices for the greater good whether that’s for the planet, humans or animal welfare.

I would also note I have no problem with animals becoming extinct. ( although my son would lose his job )
Why keep herds of animals going, so humans can gawp at them.
That is just as selfish and just as controlling.

Because it’s become very diluted.
Back in the 80s in this country if you became a vegetarian for non religious reasons according to the Vegetarian Society vegetarians did not eat or use anything that was a result of killing or a bi product of killing.

So silk and leather are bi products and not used by vegetarians either.

There are now, it seems many versions of vegetarians but they are often related to religious or cultural adherence aswel.

Vegetarians aren't bothered by animal welfare if they consume dairy and most eggs, it's not possible.

Unless the dairy consumers are paying a price that enables a dairy business to be viable while losing the money from the beef and keeping cows fed, housed, and provided with veterinary care until their natural death, then they are just as responsible for slaughter as a meat consumer.

@laylababe5 , why are you telling me what vegans are?
You keep switching between using vegan and vegetarian.
I am vegetarian - I used the vegetarian society's guidelines when working out what was OK to eat.

What's at issue with OP is that the restaurant doesn't seem to know that some of the ingredients are probably not suitable for vegetarians.

Whether OP wears leather shoes or not is irrelevant.

Edited to correct a typo.

I only know a small local dairy to me well. When an older cow fails to calve, she is killed to sell for beef. This does not only benefit people buying the beef but also subsidises the cost of the dairy products for those who only buy dairy. Keeping cows that don't produce milk is not a financially viable alternative. They cost money to keep. Increasing the price of the dairy would mean losing customers. I pay £2.75 a litre for my milk. The dairy is calf at foot. How much more do you think people will pay to keep cows in happy retirement for years? Dairy cows are killed to subsidise dairy consumers.

@Demonhunter , you seem to be the one on a 'moral high horse' here.

The term Parmagiano Reggiano is protected.

The term Parmesan is only protected in the EU. As I said.

These threads always go the same way, and it's really sad.

Of course restaurants should have the correct labelling for dishes, so people can trust the labelling and make an informed choice about what they're eating.

There is an official definition of what a vegetarian is, and eating parmesan with animal rennet in it doesn't fit within that definition. The problem with people calling themselves vegetarian, but then eating gelatine, or rennet, or fish, or even chicken (yep, there are some people out there who call themselves veggie but eat chicken!) is that that then people/restaurants think that this is what all veggies eat, when of course they don't. It's less common now, but does still happen, where a fish dish is labelled as vegetarian. Great if you're pescatarian, but not if you're veggie!

It doesn't matter whether you think vegetarians are the worse people in the world for daring to eat dairy. You're allowed to have that opinion, just as vegetarians are allowed to have their opinion that they're happy to do it, as per the actual definition of what being a vegetarian is.

No-one is saying restaurants have to cater for vegetarians and vegans, of course they don't. But most restaurants understand it's in their interest to, as it's pretty common to have a veggie/vegan/flexitarian/dairy allergy (etc etc) person in a party of people eating food, so they clearly want to cater for that in order that they don't lose any business. And that's great if they make that decision, but the people coming up with the menus/cooking the food should have enough knowledge to ensure that the things they are claiming are vegetarian (or vegan etc) are actually what they say they are.

I would never criticize anyone for what they choose to eat - if someone wants to eat meat and fish that's entirely up to them. I do find it odd when people eat meat but 'won't eat lamb because they're cute', or turn their nose up at venison because 'I can't eat Bambi', or think it's weird to eat things pigeon or rabbit etc (I don't really understand why it's fine to eat one kind of animal, but not another). However, I would never say this out loud to them, and respect everyone's individual opinion to eat whatever they like (or don't!). Unfortunately, people tend to not be so respectful back, and try to enforce their opinions on people who are veggie and vegan about how it's so terrible. I have NEVER encountered a veggie or vegan trying to enforce their views on anyone, but plenty of meat eaters who do. It's like they're personally affronted at someone not wanting to eat dead flesh, it's very bizarre.

So, eat what you like, but remember that there are definitions of vegetarian and vegan, and that it really isn't unreasonable to expect supermarkets/restaurants/catering etc to ensure that food they're offering that is labelled as such should actually be correct.

I don’t think it would be unreasonable to get in touch and ask and also it would be educating them if they are serving non vegetarian food as vegetarian.

I agree, can always call and double check that the Parmesan is one of the vegetarian Parmesans instead of traditional Parmesan.

As I said in an earlier post, generally I'm not, but when I see high horse dairy eating vegetarians, showing moral despair at rennet, and acting like they're superior to meat eaters, because they only abuse the animals for their wants while they're alive, not while they're being slaughtered, that's when I pipe up. If what I said is pricking your conscience 🤷‍♀️

I agree a lot of meat eaters do this and vegans are ripped down by them as well as being ripped down by vegetarians, blaming vegans for restaurants not serving them meat free and dairy together.

Put of everyone really, the vegetarians are the biggest hypocrites. It could be argued that at least meat eaters are using up the bodies of cows and chickens after they've been deemed useless for dairy and egg production and thrown away by the dairy and egg eaters after their lifetime of abuse and torture.

Vegetarians who are so because of allergy or textural and taste reasons, and don't have anything to say about animal welfare in the food industry are different of course.

I'm not talking about the OP, I'm saying what people understand to be vegetarian can be very different.

That's what I'm saying! What's acceptable for some vegetarians is not acceptable for others, ergo parmesan may be ok with some people who consider themselves vegetarian. The OP is asking if a restaurant should know that parmesan is not vegetarian, I'm pointing out that some vegetarians may be ok with eating it.

I really don't see why there is a need to get angry because some people chose not to eat animals, or others chose not to eat any animal products.

Bizarre

I live in Wakefield but have never visited this restaurant for that exact reason! You are not in the slightest bit unreasonable

P.s. you may already know this but the nearby Kaye Arms take the vegetarian and vegan options seriously. Their sausage and mash is beautiful

I just like to amuse myself with vegetarian hypocrisy. Whining about rennet when clad head to foot in leather, etc. Probably drove there in a car with leather seats. Bwah ha ha

@Demonhunter, I'm not showing moral despair at animal rennet. I don't want to eat it. If eating out, I'd like to be confident that a dish labelled as vegetarian is actually vegetarian.

I sometimes eat out with colleagues. Some are vegetarian, or select a vegetarian dish, for religious reasons, so the rennet would be an issue.

I'm a vegetarian because I don't want to eat animals. There's nothing to prick my conscience.

@laylababe5 , I'm fine with the standard definition, thanks.

Oh ok, just you haven't once addressed the dairy industry issues, but have addreased everything else mentioned, so I thought you were having a morality check. That's OK if not.