Would you let your child do this or am I over the top?

[KrustyBurger]

Currently on holiday in the USA. We are staying at a Marriott so not a motel type set up.

Husband asked our daughter who is 12 to run some rubbish down to the bin next to the lift, she would have to go past about 12 room doors (6 each side).

I said no, il do it as you never know who’s in the rooms and it only takes 5 seconds for someone to open the door and yank her in and you wouldn’t even know which room it is or where she is.

Husband said ok but gave me a strange glance.

Was I being over the top? Or would other parents do the same. It’s nearly 10pm at night here.

Husband's a bit of a clean freak and our bin is full hence not just leaving it.

I thought the OP was discussing her 12 year old not a teenager? I wouldn’t go camping to begin with but if i did it would depend on where the campsite was; whether it welcomed all demographics I.e families, single people, people that drank excessively, loads of things

no and? How would CCTV made any difference to an instant decision of a criminal?

Absolutely I would, easy enough to leave the door open if you're worried.

and yes abductions happen, or getting caught in gang warfare. But all kinds of accidents happen at schools. Relatives at home could harm children. If a child is abducted, it is in majority of cases not a stranger. Car accidents clearly much higher risk than hotel hallway abductions. How do you operate with 0 risk?

You are completely over the top and are running the risk of giving your daughter a heightened level of fear of anywhere that is not home.

I don’t think she’s missing out on anything by not being able to put stuff in a bin

Probably not, no, but I'd worry more about the message I was giving her than the microscopic chance of her being snatched

Like so much else it's a question of balance, and while encouraging caution's wise, showcasing outright paranoia's perhaps less so

Oh ffs
Now in the less than 5 minutes it takes the girl to walk down the corridor of the fairly nice hotel and back at 10pm a gunfight is going to spontaneously break out like they're in the slums

Exactly this!

When my SD was 10 we went to a caravan park with her aunt and cousin. Cousin is a few years younger and autistic, he wasn't keen on going out much or socialising and doesn't sleep at night. She made loads of friends and we spent a lot of time sitting outside the caravan, relaxing/reading etc. whilst SD ran around with a pack of children she'd met, in and out of our eyesight but within calling distance. A couple of times she asked if she could go with the kids to the park on the site which was fine with us so long as she stayed with her friends, we could find her at the park if we needed to and she wouldn't go anywhere else. She had a brilliant time.

The following year, her Mum took her on the same holiday to the same caravan park with the same aunt and cousin.

She came back and said she'd had an awful time, her Mum hadn't let her leave the caravan without direct adult supervision and because cousin didn't want to go anywhere, she'd spent most days sitting in the caravan watching TV and being bored to death. When she asked why she couldn't go off outside and play, her Mum used Madeleine McCann as the excuse. It really does scare me that adult women equate letting an 11 year old play outside without constant helicoptering with leaving babies to sleep alone in a different building.

Seeing the entire US as a gang ridden, gun obsessed hellhole is a popular trope on here, though TBF there are some areas which are exactly that

But unless OP's been very unwise in picking where to stay I doubt she has much to worry about, and certainly no more than she would anywhere else

When you look at mitigating risks though you start from a position of what is entirely avoidable, then you see what can be reduced and then you see if it is necessary to tolerate that risk. I see this risk as avoidable as it doesn’t need to happen at all, getting into a car is a risk than may have to be tolerated in order to get somewhere that isn’t possible without a car but you reduce the risk by putting your seatbelt on, not drink driving, not driving when tired etc. risk of a relative harming your child is unknown until after the event so would be tolerated as unavoidable without a crystal ball.

Campsite rules: you can only have 1 drink and you must arrive with a husband, wife and 2.4 children. I don't think so.

@Goldenbear even with your example regarding your mum though you said yourself that it was a man who was known to be a bit dodgy. Statistically, I believe this sort of thing is notably down these days in terms of strangers, not least because we're better at spotting, policing and restricting access to people who are known offenders.

When I was growing up (30+ years ago), as teenagers, it was pretty common to be flashed. As I understand it, this does still happen, but I don't think I had a single female friend who hadn't been flashed at some point whereas I don't think that is necessarily true for teenage girls today (although maybe I'm wrong?). But, for example, at least half of us were flashed by the same dodgy guy, who hung out in the area. Again, certainly in large parts of the Western world, those sort of people are more likely to be moved on/arrested these days and there's a lot of sharing of information about them. Whereas in my day, everyone just told us to "avoid Dave". This is a good thing and it makes our children safer.

I'm with you OP, people who have lived easy lives don't realise what can happen!

When you look at mitigating risks though you start from a position of what is entirely avoidable, then you see what can be reduced and then you see if it is necessary to tolerate that risk.

You are leaving out a really important aspect of mitigating risk which is understanding the level of the risk in the first place. Yes, it is totally avoidable risk regarding my child being hurt in a hotel corridor by a stranger. It's also such a low risk that the avoidability factor has to be considered in this context.

All decisions regarding risk are weighted. You are applying the same weight to a risk that has a 10% chance of happening as you are to one that's 50% or that's 0.000001%.

I probably wouldnt have thought about so would have let her do it. If I'd thought about it I'd have said Ok - but leave the door open so we can hear if there is any commotion.

I agree with this.

It's weird that you draw the line at your daughter walking down a hotel corridor Vs going around town independently.

For her to get snatched in a hotel far from home and full of strangers would seem to me far less likely than a predator in your town noticing your daughter's movements and routines, maybe striking up a conversation with her and her friend in the cafe they like to go to, coincidentally running into them there a few more times, befriending them, maybe buying them some age restricted items, offering a lift home when it's raining/to save on bus fare...

I don't think the local predator is that likely either, to be clear.

I disagree. I grew up in South Africa. I am far more alert when I am out and about than many people I know. I'm constantly surprised by how casual people are with their belongings in public and have been known to secretly roll my eyes when someone tells me their wallet was stolen when I've noticed them leaving their bag on random chairs at restaurants on a reglar basis.

What I think growing up with higher risks does though is give me a good ability to assess risk. I know that the chances of me being murdered while wandering down the street in a tourist town in Europe are low. I also know that the chances of me being pickpocketd in that same tourist town are high. I am careful about the areas I go into at night if I don't know an area well. I do not worry about being grabbed on a popular beach at lunch time.

I also understand the benefit of looking at statistics and/or accessing information on crime and how things are handled when they go badly. There are countries I would not want to visit or would be cautious about because I have read about actual situations in which tourists have got into significant trouble by doing things that are considered perfectly normal at home - many middle eastern countries being a good example of this. On the other hand, I know that violent or excessive crime against tourists in places like Greece are low.

These are huge parts of how I asses risk. Rather than blanket, "it's a foreign country so it's automatically more dangerous".

She's 12, of course she can go to a hotel bin, this level of anxiety isn't normal tbh. She should be building up her independence, just stand at the door and watch her 🤷‍♀️

Out of curiosity, just looked at highest kidnapping rates.

2023:
Turkey
Lebenon
Kuwait
Canada
Belgian
Sough Africa

Surprised Canada and Belgian are so high (based on per capita rather than total people kidnapped)

I can be an anxious parent at times but this is waaaay over the top!

What, exactly and within rational thought, is going to happen to a 12 year old walking down a corridor in a mid to upper range hotel at 10pm which will doubtless have cctv on it and will be within shouting range of her parents?

I mean, ffs. She's more likely to trip over the carpet more than anything else.

This place is absolutely nuts at times.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting, ‘it’s a foreign country so it’s automatically more dangerous”However, certain countries are more risky to everyone not just tourists, that is just a fact. Not having familiarity with a place and customs makes you instantly at a disadvantage, being a young child disadvantages you further.

Can you produce some statistics about how many kids per year are snatched from hotel corridors in reputable hotel chains in the US?

Thanks in advance.

@goldenbear - you keep providing what you tell us are the ways to assess risk. Or the best options for risk management.

But when you are challenged and someone offers an alternative to risk assessment, not just "instinct" but with specific examples of higher vs lower risk, tools for risk assessment etc, you bat it aside with "certain countries are higher risk, not just for tourists" which is an incredibly generic and poor risk assessment model. Which, if you work in risk management, you should know.

I would have the same response as you. Perhaps sadly you and I know first hand how these things can happen so are more huper vigilant