Navigating a world of mean school mums?

[OctanuTs]

Okay I know that sounds dramatic but my youngest child has started reception in September so nearly a year there. I never made any effort with school mums for my eldest as I worked long hours and hardly ever did drop offs or pick ups. I really regret this as I saw the impact it had on my daughter with me not being friendly with the mums. I didn’t want to repeat the same mistake for my youngest but I’m finding it tough!

I find a couple of the mums really rude such as don’t say hi unless I say it first. Will zoom past me looking busy but then stop to chat with another mum even if it’s pouring with rain. I’ll stop the same one for a chat too but will be met with I have to run I’ll chat another time. Do t want to have play dates but when we’ve brought the class pet home (a teddy with a photo book!) I’ll see there’s been numerous play dates my child hasn’t been invited to, I’ll try to arrange he a playdate and be met with comments like “maybe next month”. It’s nearly the end of school year now and we haven’t even met up with the kids my child actually plays with. We have had some play dates but not with the kids he actually plays with.

just for context I saw the effect it had on my eldest that I’ve reduced my hours just for the purpose of getting friendly with my sons classmates mums. My daughter is in year 5 now and it breaks my heart to see her excluded just because I’m not best mates with the mums in her class.

This!

I think you're putting yourself under undue pressure here OP.

At my DCs primary the extrovert mums in a constant crowd all loudly making plans and talking about parties etc can sometimes make quieter people feel they have to join in too. But if you're not naturally one of those people don't worry about it.

Are you inviting child and parent

Or just child

Try just the child. I can pick up from school and drop off at yours /you pick up at 530/6

We have a school mum who always comes on the play date. I don't want to entertain her while the kids play nicely

If they say next month, say agree. I have a busy few week coming up. Let's put a date in the diary now for next month

If doing weekends - mine are busy. Rarely do play dates sat /sun

Or arrange a meet up in the park /soft play for school holidays

This, pretty much. We moved countries when DS was 7, and in our previous place, my job involved a commute to the nearest city, so I very seldom did the school run as DS was in wraparound care, and it wasn’t a friendly environment, anyway, as I was a foreigner in an insular spot. But DS still had a perfectly happy social life, I did host play dates, made sure I had contacts for his friends’ parents etc. Where we live now, DS’s school is between our home and my workplace, a short walk away, so I see far more fellow-parents, have made good friends with his closest friends’ parents and see them socially separately, but I don’t think it’s made any particular difference to his friendships.

TL;DR version. I don’t think it matters much at all to your child’s social life if you’re friends with their friends’ parents.

I think you need to work out exactly what you are trying to achieve. I suspect its you want to build a friendship group for your youngest.

Although some parental involvement can help sometimes - I actually think its down to the child's personality whether they have friends. Confident children tend to have more friends - regardless of whether their parent/s have friends at the school gate or not.

The fact you are thinking about this stuff makes me wonder how you feel about your own confidence.

I was a SAHM during my kids primary school years - my mum had not really let us have friends over as small children and I was determined to help my kids build friendships. I regularly had playdates for them at our house - I never minded about things not being reciprocated.

I found a few things:

1. No matter how many kids and mums I had over how many times - its was the kids who my child choose to build a friendship with at that child choose my child where the friendships were stronger/lasted longer.

2. School is not a popularity contest - ignore those other playdates. Ask your child to pick three children they would like to spend more time with and concentrate on those. Also double check with their teacher who they do play with because at that age things don't always line up.

3. Social skills - it was discovered as teens that my children have inattentive ADHD - they miss social cues and this led them to be left out of some social groups unfortunately. Its very subtle but it has made a difference.

Re your daughter - girls are much trickier with friendships than boys. I have boy/girl twins and I always joke boys stand next to each other and then they are in a group! With my daughter there is a million social codes she needs to understand / comply with. Don't beat yourself up about your daughter's situation - its very very unlikely its because you were busy working.

Your DC is in y5, at this age you don't arrange random playdates. Too late for that. It was possible in reception. You can try that only with your child friends.

About the birthday parties. In Y5 many parents don't do them and if they do they organise a small parties for closes friends. Earlier in Reception many parents do for the entire class.
Have you invited all those that have not invited your child? Don't expect otherwise.

If you really want somebody to speak to you talk to them. They probably hardly recognise you. Maybe they are from other countries where there is no custom to say hello hello hello in front of the school to everybody.

Focus on the secondary school you planning for your DC. Chose wisely. New friendships prospects.

OP, to be honest I think you need to change your mindset. The title mentioned "mean school mums". I can't see any examples of the other mums being mean from what you've said.

Saying hello first. I may smile or wave to other mums I'm friendly with but I don't always say "hello".

Stopping to chat- you have no idea what they're chatting about. Could be logistics for a school club / providing support for someone going through a rough time etc.

If you automatically think these people are "mean" based on the examples you've given that will likely show in your overall demeanor and way of interacting.

We had an awful time with school mums of my eldest daughter they were absolute cliquey bitches but our second child's school mums were all 'normal' and lovely. It's luck of the draw tbh. There's no point in reducing hours to work on this. If you are going to click then you will click.

My son starts year 4 soon,
I've tried suggesting play dates at home or at the park, group play dates, I've tried practically everything yet we get knocked back all the time and after four years of it I'm tired of the lot of it and don't bother now

They don’t sound mean??? I think youre looking at it all the wrong way and if you are considering them mean and rude they may be able to pick up on that. From what you’ve said, they literally haven’t done anything wrong

Saying maybe next month to a play date is not rude - people are busy
not stopping to chat in the rain is also not rude - again… people are just busy
it seems like you’re taking everything very personally

The difficulty organizing play dates now is often a grandparent/ Childminder/ club collect children from school perhaps suggest a day ,tell the parent you will collect their child and have tea with them .Personally I’d ask one child at a time only as it gives them chance to form a proper friendship . Maybe write or text so it can’t be lost .

It's really odd you think your daughter has missed out because you haven't made friends with other school parents

I don't think it's odd, and I disagree with all those saying parental friendships have no impact on a child's school friendships. I can clearly see at my son's school that it makes a massive difference, especially for children who are naturally quiet or shy or lack confidence. These kids benefit greatly from being automatically included in social stuff outside school because of their parents' friendship groups, when they would otherwise be overlooked.

Having said that OP, if you aren't part of those groups, you won't be alone in that. There will absolutely be parents who would welcome a playdate invitation for their child, you just have to work out which.

It's true that parents friendships do influence the kids friendships. I can see it every day.

It's not about pushing kids together, but they naturally gravitate towards each other when together because parents meet for a BBQ, diner. They end up having sleepovers more with some friends.

People who decline are not necessarily mean, but everybody is busy. It's easier to exchange playdates with people you know, people you see at the weekend when kids are doing the same sports.

I know that my kids have been invited to many things because we were in the same friends group. They wouldn't have missed on the birthday parties, but they would have missed on the sleepovers after the parties, on days out etc.

Keep trying to organise meet-ups outside and things will develop organically.

If they truly are “mean school mums” then you need to ask yourself why you are so set on being friends with them?

Having said that, there really doesn’t seem to be any evidence of them being mean. You are not owed friendship. You are owed civility, respect and basic kindness. These women might have longstanding friendships dating back to their own school days, they could be related, they could just gel, or they could be like me and come across quite aloof but really I’m a huge introvert and hugely anxious - it takes me over a year to warm up to people enough to consider them friends.

You are putting a lot of pressure on forming friendships and this eagerness may be overwhelming or off putting to randoms at the school gate. It is really bizarre that you would cut work hours for this purpose.

I would suggest that if you haven’t found your tribe at the school gate, try putting your children in activities and widen their social circle. Eg. Basketball/netball/tennis/dance

How much does your eldest struggle socially? Does she have froends at school.

As my eldest started to struggle around y3. Stopped being invited to parties. And she is autistic.
The parents here do manipulate friendships though. So even my youngest who was doing ok (again to y3 is starting to struggle as the others get closer). I would struggle to pickp out the 8yo closest friends. And it can seem like they have them but yes, no weekend invites at all.
For some families they seem to organise things where their oldest kids are friends so the youngest play together.

Also some of the parents know each other even from toddler groups.

I don't fit into school mum cliques either.
A couple of years ago it bothered me but I'm not into popularity contests.
I'm a bit of a shy weirdo anyway and always in a hurry to get to work!
My advice is say hello to everyone and smile. Maybe make small talk if the opportunity comes up but don't overthink or push it.
Also chat to the dads! I find them easier to talk to.
You don't have to make lifelong mates in the playground.
I didn't used to have any mum friends, this year (DD is in Y1) I got chatting to one and I've also got a couple of mates from DDs hobby.
So it will come in time. No need to worry about it.

Me personally, I think these mums are just being straight up cvnts, they aren't worth your time and you should definitely branch out and try to find other mums to hang out with. If not for you, for the sake of your child.

What have they done to be cunts? Had a chat with people they're friends with? Not arranged a play date?

Just because you have kids at school together doesn't mean that every parent has to be friends with everyone.

Some people honestly might be really busy and then suddenly see someone they have to speak to because of something with their kids/ their kids’ siblings/ a hobby or they might know each other outside of school. People at the school gates probably see me as rude a lot but my brain is honestly just full sometimes (worries with mum, bro, kids, work etc). And play dates rarely suit here because of pick ups from secondary/ dh’s work or me not being around. I think everyone assumes mums to be rude when it’s more likely they’re selfish/ oblivious but because they’ve stuff on / going on

wow

I am guessing you made LOADS of mums friends didn't you 😂

I have to say I’m sick of these “waaaah the school mums are mean” posts. Especially when the thread is peppered with misogyny.

Do you really expect every woman to say hello to every other woman she passes in the playground? I’d never leave the place if I had to do this.

Also some of the other mums are my actual friends not acquaintances. I want to have conversations with a friend The suggestion that we should either a) invite random women into a private friend conversation, or b) not speak to my actual friend because it might upset a stranger?

So pathetic to suggest it’s a clique. If you don’t wanna be the ‘drop and run’ mum then get involved - organise a night out, join the PTA. That way your kids may get more invites because they know their kid’s friend has a mum they get on with.

What is it about being a school that brings out the unreasonable sulkers that often use misogynistic language? Is it because of the juxtaposition of the school makes them think they are in school?

But that could just be because they’re not the types rather than they don’t like the OP. My DS’s best friends parents are very elusive and I can’t get them to reply about a play date but apparently they just don’t get involved that way in play dates etc, which is fine.

I agree with this.

my son is only in year 2 and often parents still want to accompany their child to play dates at our home. Which I’m more than happy to accommodate but I’m much more inclined to ask them over if it’s a parent I actually like and can have a laugh with

I've never really got this 'trying to engineer' your child's social life.

Your child will make friends when they're ready and when they are, they'll be invited whether you're friends with their parents or not.

Stop trying to force it. It rarely ends well 🤷‍♂️

Women are cunts because they dare to have friends but are also not friends with all other 300 mums in the school?
Really?

I say hello to those who i can tell are actively trying to swerve me! Join the PTA, youll make friends there!