To find what’s happened to Michael Mosley quite anxiety provoking

[Glasto73lover]

It’s that idea of never really knowing what’s going to happen- the idea that we walk such a fine line in life. If you think too much about it, you probably wouldn’t leave the house.!

A close family member died suddenly and tragically a decade ago - literally dropped dead at home age 48 - something went pop in their head. So you genuinely don’t know when your time is up.

It’s that idea of a chain of consequence that can go so horribly wrong too- people always say ‘oh but you could get hit by a bus’ - stuff like this actually makes me really anxious. So many what ifs.

For Michael Moseley - a chain of probably inconsequential decisions may have led to his death- not having a phone on him, choosing to undertake a walk that in the U.K. is nothing but in that heat, was devastating and probably caused his death.

It makes me anxious that I won’t know if I am making those decisions - am I making sense? I think as I have got older, I have become more anxious and risk averse (thanks menopause) and as a result, you could end up not leaving the house. How do you choose a sensible approach? Not too much risk but some!

But I also want to live my life too!! I guess I find incidents like this quite difficult!

I guess always having a phone, not undertaking walks in intense heat in an unfamiliar place etc are the common sense points that will come out of this tragedy.

Aibu to find it anxiety provoking tho?!

Totally agree with this.

I’m sorry for the loss of your dad- what a shock that must have been (and continue to be). But you are so right that those kinds of deaths are much ‘better’ for the person who is dying- but really horrendous for those left behind. My friend’s very fit dad went on a bike ride (which was his favourite thing), had a massive heart attack and dropped dead. Extremely traumatic for his family, but not a bad way to go in the grand scheme of things.

My parents both died of cancer. I had a bit of time to get my head round the fact they were going to die (although actually only about a month in my dad’s case). Those kinds of deaths are very hard going for the person doing the dying. They have the worry of the ones they’re leaving behind, and their own psychological battle with coming to terms with the fact their life will soon end.

I too think that falling off a mountain aged 80 is probably just about the ‘best’ death I could think of.

It’s so, so sad for MM’s family, and I think the fact he was such a friendly, relatable type has meant it has hit many people.

The other slightly “ down” thought it had given me is after all his focus and emphasis on dietary restrictions, healthy living etc in order to “live longer” …

I think where I’m getting to is that life needs to be a balance of incorporating what you enjoy. And yes a donut every day isn’t ideal but don’t forgo them always if you’d really enjoy one! Living on bean sprouts and running marathons is no guarantee of anything on that font.

Why would she be reading it? I'm sure she has got better things to do. Anyway, it's not as if people are being rude about him as a person. They are just saying he did something very foolish which less face it is true.

Seeing as that was my comment you quote there I’ll bow to your more complete advice and I admit I was trying to keep things simple, as in the context of this accident and maybe a 1-2 hour walk.

Beyond that and certainly for pre planned prolonged exercise where you can be out for long hours in very hot weather the advice certainly used to be 500 ml/half hour of plain water, minimum. I agree with you that on top of that in those circumstances you do need the extras you’ve mentioned, maybe imbibed via gels and/or other means such as mixing the plain water drinks with drinks containing electrolytes…

@Calliopespa, agree but also, I always thought part of Mosely’s message was about quality of life, not just longevity. I know he talked about ways we could give ourselves the best chance of a long life, but much of the advice he gave was about living well. Because there’s no point living to 100 if you spend the last 10-20 years of that time immobile, in pain, reliant on medical intervention to keep you going.

I eat pretty well and exercise a lot. I don’t drink much and try to reduce stress (but I certainly eat doughnuts too when I feel like it!). I’m not bothered about longevity, but I am bothered about having a decent quality of life and remaining active for as long as possible.

Quite deep issues in this thread - and ones that have exercised human thought for centuries.

I think MM, who liked to make people think, would be tickled that even though he is no longer making documentaries, he’s still provoking reflection!

Has anyone actually been to that area that can shed some light on this situation? Is visibility bad at the top of that mountain that it's not obvious going wrong way?

I find myself now wondering how many lives will be saved by the publicity this tragic death has had worldwide.

How many people in future will be considering taking a hike, bike ride, whatever, and may now pause and think "what if?"

Perhaps they'll double check they have their phone, take another look at the map, pack another bottle of water.

Some posters have been quite cruel, using words like ‘stupid’ and ‘idiocy’. Some posters have even thought it appropriate to lay some of the blame on Dr Moseley’s widow and friends for ‘letting’ him go for a walk. I would have thought posters could say those things in private conversations, not on a public forum. Yes, I daresay the family are unlikely to be reading this very thread at this moment, but someone known to MM might come across it someday. Why take the risk that you could add even more distress to a person who has already experienced something deeply distressing?

Yes I think that’s probably fair; and his advice was initially developed for people who needed urgent help health wise, not the fanatics.

But there are people who obsess over what they eat etc as though it’s going to see them partying on New Year’s Eve in the year 3000.

It’s balance really. As my grandmother’s sister once said in response to a health lecture from an overly health conscious grand-daughter: “ None of us look glamorous in the ground.”

I used to be a solo walker in the countryside, but stopped when there was an issue with WhatsApp tracker and didn't work for a while.

I always take enough fluids, or know where I can pick some up. A paper map, an electronic map with GPS, compass and WhatsApp tracker to ten metres. And a power pack.

The story sadly reminds me of the lady who did a solo hike in America a few years ago. She went unprepared. She nipped into a bush to do a wee, stood up and couldn't find the path again. She was found dead about two years later and about 150 metres from the path. That story didn't add up either.

for a walk in an unknown place in extreme heat without the correct resources or enough water and without a phone

So much seem to being made about lack of phone but he seemed to have been in beachwear - shorts and shirt and I know with DH and FIL lack of pockets has often meant MIL and I end up with their phones not always remember on parting - and other people actively want breaks from them.

I thought he'd started to feel unwell - rather than disrupt rest of their plans headed back with umbrella and some water and got lost possibly due to being ill with impair judgement.

When my FIL was 67 he was still pushing on with full time work and side project - both very physical in nature very active holidays steep climbs- and it took a minor heart attack for him and others to realise he wasn't as young any more and did need to take account of age and his body slowing down despite him being outwardly very fit.

I haven't read through all 20 pages, but honestly - the main lesson is, don't go for a walk and not tell people your route.

I know a lady who fell off her bike and died. Not from the broken ankle but because no one knew where she'd gone and so spent 2 days out in the cold with a broken ankle.

I tell my kids ALL the time. You must tell people your route. Not because we're checking on you, but because we know where to look if you don't return.

If he'd told people where he was going, he'd have been found super quickly.

The thing is, you talk as if healthy living is not enjoyable and unhealthy living is. I disagree. For example, MM and his wife encouraged people to eat a Mediterranean diet for health and longevity. To me, Mediterranean food is the most delicious food! Give me a big Greek salad and grilled fish over a donut any day! I have a real passion for Mediterranean food and get excited about eating it (unlike donuts).
Most of the things MM recommended are things I enjoy anyway - walking, getting out in nature, learning new skills, sleeping well, eating dark chocolate and enjoying a glass of red wine.
Unhealthy living, such as eating loads of processed foods and not moving your body much doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Like everyone here I am only speculating.
People are talking about him going off hiking and was ill prepared.

I don't see him as going off on a planned hike, just making a
return to the villa. Sure it was hot but I can imagine him thinking that it wouldn't take long and then he would relax.

I got caught out in Spain recently and think there but the grace of God! My hotel didn't look far from where I spent the day but I didn't take into account how steep the road was back to Mijas. I thought I'd buy some water at a shop but it was cash only the bus wasn't for another hour and so on. I was absolutely spent by the time I got back.

When I do hike I take maps, supplies , compases, spare clothing, food etc, for a stroll I take my front door key and on occasion my phone.

Things that seem quite simple can turn into something much bigger than you though and sadly in this case fatal.

It’s probably bad to say the lovely holiday being spoiled is one of the main issues here.
“Oh my husbands popped his clogs. What’s a nuisance! He always was thoughtless”

I haven't read through all 20 pages, but honestly - the main lesson is, don't go for a walk and not tell people your route.

I understand he told people he was heading back to the villa.

Unless he decided he was going to circumnavigate the island for a bit of a detour I wouldn't expect a further explanation if my dh had said that.

If 67 is old and infirm, as so many on this thread seem to suggest, can they please have a word with the government who think it is well within our working years?

My grandfather was still downhill ski racing into his 70s and only stopped after he had a hip replacement.

I tell my kids ALL the time. You must tell people your route. Not because we're checking on you, but because we know where to look if you don't return.

I say same to my teens - I want someone to have a idea where to start looking and when if something goes wrong they should worry- so approx area and time at very least.

I suspect this was more viewed as popping back to hotel room to rest - and despite arduous climb wasn't mentally framed as anything potentially dangerous.

My teens have said they want to go for walks without us on holiday - DH first repone was to make sure they have their phone - mine that we talk to them about tides as it is very possible to get cut off - and remind them about flags if they decide to swim and heat/sun.

@SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun

I thought he'd started to feel unwell - rather than disrupt rest of their plans headed back with umbrella and some water and got lost possibly due to being ill with impair judgement.

If my OH was feeling unwell, the last thing I'd let him do is walk back on his own without a phone, in the hottest part of the day, without enough liquids! I'd be insisting we go back together, probably by taxi rather than walking on rough ground over a mountain!

He made a series of poor decisions unfortunately. If he'd had his phone things might have been different, it's well known that you avoid going out and certainly any strenuous activities between 12 and 3/4 pm when the sun is at its highest, he had only a small bottle of water, walked where there was zero shade. It doesn't take away the awful tragedy of what happened, but it may help others not to take unnecessary risks.

I tell my kids ALL the time. You must tell people your route. Not because we're checking on you, but because we know where to look if you don't return.

Me and OH do a fair bit of daily walking separately. We know each other's routes and don't deviate from them. I have around 15 regular walking routes, OH has around 10. The last thing either of us would do on our own is randomly take a different route.

We've also instilled that same mentality into our son. Fair enough, he doesn't do walking for fun, but throughout his teens, we insisted on knowing where he was going, how he was getting there, who he was with, etc. Sounds controlling, but it's a matter of safety. Not just being able to contact/find him if he went AWOL, but also giving us the opportunity to point out potential pitfalls, risks, etc if we thought he was going somewhere with risks he maybe hadn't considered, and ensuring he had a Plan B etc.

It’s a red herring that keeps getting repeated that MM had been feeling unwell. I think it came from a mistranslation.

But it does not fit with anything said by his widow. Look up her statements if you want.

People should really stop repeating it.

I’m sure MM’s wife is really grateful for your advice. 🙄

We weren’t there and we don’t know what they talked about before he left. We don’t know if he said ‘I feel ill’, or perhaps ‘I’m a bit tired’ or ‘I’ve got a bit of a headache’ or indeed ‘I feel extremely unwell’.

Also, we’re talking about grown adults here. ‘Let’ and ‘insist’ don’t really have any place in conversations with other adults. My husband and I make decisions for ourselves. Yes of course we discuss things and sometimes one of us will try to persuade or influence the other if we feel strongly about something, but you can’t actually ‘let’ or ‘not let’ an adult go for a walk, provided they’re of sound mind.

If 67 is old and infirm, as so many on this thread seem to suggest, can they please have a word with the government who think it is well within our working years?

FIL was working full time as a builder in week then weekends either digging an huge allotment and back garden or single handily building huge extension for DH cousin in evenings and weekend for months - he did that kind of thing most of his life but by 67 that level of activity was just too much for him - but he wasn't listening to everyone saying have more breaks or slow down. Heart attack made him slow down a lot.

So not saying 67 is infirm - but is I think a dangerous age in that that it's easy for particularly fit men to misjudge slow decline in capability before major infirmity and ill health starts to hit.