Body positivity is out of control…

[YumYumY]

Inspired by another thread raising the topic of UPFs (by a fit 70 year old).

And I’m definitely people judging and shaming.

Lot of us eat shit food (availability of shit food definitely an issue) and seem to be proud of it.

Common MN army, lay into me.

I’ve done both, got used to eating crap as well as got more disciplined and got the crap out of my system (more than once and the change in diet was never a pleasurable experience).

But looking at the streets people just look so, yes fat, and unhealthy. And I’m calling already a size 12 fat here just to be clear (with some leeway for different bone structures)

When will we start admitting we are fat and it is a problem.

And yet 47% of French adults are overweight with 20% suffering from obesity.

I think class has a lot to do with it. Posh tourist or residential areas more likely to have wealthier, slimmer people, whereas poor areas more overweight ones? Which gives you the misperception that everyone in France eats well and is slim.

I guess it's like a tourist to the UK basing British physiques on a visit to Kensington.

@Tomatina I am wearing a size 12 skirt today. I am 12 stone and my BMI is obese.

Us shorties can be fat at a size 12.

Obviously it’s not good to overeat or eat UPFs. But, humans are designed to store fat - until about five minutes ago food wasn’t plentiful for most people. It’s difficult to maintain a diet that only supplies the calories needed to maintain the body and no more. If it was easy everyone would be within healthy weight ranges.
Body positivity is something else in my mind. The forced “celebration” and “acceptance” of obese bodies as normal and healthy is a flat out dangerous lie. It tells on health as they age, and makes people unhappy and filled with self loathing.
No-one wants to be fat.

As a fifty-something I can only remember one kid in each class being noticeably fat - primary and secondary. It is startling how many fat kids there are now - from all backgrounds but mostly more deprived households.

Girls seem to be of the opinion “if I can struggle into it, and fasten it, it fits” eh not! Others are skinny as they ever were. Boys are big and doughy instead of lean and rangy.

There definitely is a “new normal” as far as body size hors, not for the goof either.

It is laughable you picked a size 12 to be honest. I wouldnt say it was overly big size but I’m bigger so I guess I wouldn’t see it like that, 12 is my ideal size I am able to maintain comfortably. But anyway, I would much rather be my size now 14/16 (the horror) and feel healthy than years ago I was a 10 (yes how shocking clearly on the edge of being obese 😉) and so unwell with it. I was continuously being sick and just loosing weight not ED just my stomach wasn’t happy for a good few months. I looked good but physically I was shit. Body positivity has helped me accept my body when I feel like absolute shit, then I also remember how crap I felt being smaller unable to keep food down and the realisation I would only be that size if I didn’t eat much at all.

If anyone here is in any doubt that this is a massive problem they should read Ultra Processed People.

Despite that very high number, France ranked 31st
and the UK third, with 64% - overweight and obesity

(WHO report)

They might not doing amazingly well in France, but we are an embarrassment.

Size 12 is my lowest healthy size. I'm pear shaped, and at one time I was doing a lot of exercise and dropped down to a size 10 in trousers and I was clinically underweight and my periods stopped.

I have just returned from France (Bordeaux area) and it was notable how much slimmer the population in general was

Oh, here we go 🙄
French people come in all shapes and sizes, it's a ridiculous MN myth that French people are all thin.

I went for dinner last week with 2 friends who are size 18. One has lost 2 dress sizes in weight through keto and the other has done various diet plans, would like to try keto but her salary (she’s well paid too) means she has to watch what she spends on special food.

My friend on keto admitted the bread and cereal cost more than normal items.

The friend who’s tried everything was on weight loss injections until her doctor stopped prescribed them due to a shortage.

Snacking is seen as normal though and I wish it wasn’t. I’m currently trying to lose weight and my main way to avoid snacks is just to not buy them. At the weekends I treat myself though.

I don't want to pick on one person specifically, but this illustrates well the kind of comment you always get and why there's never a possible discussion

I would much rather be my size now 14/16 (the horror) and feel healthy than years ago I was a 10 (yes how shocking clearly on the edge of being obese
No one is shocked/horrified/ passing out. 14-16 is still not a healthy size, and is still the size of an overweight body.

I would add that a 14-16 in M&S or one of the more mumsy shop can't even compare with a much smaller 14-16 New Look.

Stating facts is not fat shaming.

I'm broad-shouldered with small boobs and a long body. If something is sleeveless I can easily be two dress sizes smaller. Regardless of your caveat, I think that point detracts from your argument.

I agree, however, that the modern diet contains so little actual food and has been replaced by addictive crap that is contributing massively to our national health.

I try to eat healthily, but a bad day or if I'm feeling a bit emotional then I'm the first to reach for the bag of treats to reward myself. From then it's a slippery slope until I can force myself to get back on track.

I usually buy a 12 and my BMI is 20. I’m 178cm so I’m guessing my shoulders and pelvis are just proportionately broader than a short person’s.

I think you just pissed on your own chips with that line of argument OP, and ruined any reasonable point you might have had about the health of the nation.

So I agree there are elements of the body positivity movement that are negative - being morbidly obese is not good for you.

‘Size 12 is fat’ is the kind of generalisation which triggers people into eating disorders.

There is definitely the issue of people suffering from eating disorders and unhealthy is both, underweight as well as overweight.

When I think about body positivity I think mainly about younger people. When you see people clearly overweight dressed in tops showing off their tummies and wearing short skirts showing off their legs. Feeling empowered by it and not give a f…c what anyone thinks I say go girl. However, if that means that you are actually normalising in your head because of body positivity that it is good for your health to be that size, I say, as you get older, the health will suffer and it will be so much harder to change….

Absolutely agree. On the afternoon thread people were falling over themselves telling everyone how much they could eat in a day. One person said they ate 12 Krispy Kreme donuts in one sitting and were congratulated. Overeating is celebrated on MN. People that say they have small appetites are laughed at, called names and near enough bullied on here.

Yes with the underlying sentiment that if you are a 10 you must somehow be ill.

Typical Mumsnet.

Well, we’ve lost sight of what a healthy weight is, there’s an obesity epidemic and we’ll all be dead within 10 years if we’re not careful. My DS’s are 6ft rugby players and they eat maaassssssive salads and have hollow legs. The French are so much more attractive and sophisticated than us digusting fat British pigs…love a good fatty bashing thread on MN, and get this - i’m not even obese 😜🤣😂😆

Pretending that vanity UK sizing "size 12" is healthy or on the small side is normalising excess weight, and it's neither healthy nor helpful.

care to explain why eating a salad is so funny?

It’s weird to say that a size 12 is fat because whether or not you are fat depends entirely upon….(you’ll never guess)… how much fat you have on and around your body.

It is possible to be very small and light but still be carrying too much body fat. It is possible to be quite large and weigh quite a lot but have low body fat and significant muscle mass.

I am 5ft 3 and weigh 9 and a bit stone. I’m a size 10 on my lower half and a size 12 on my top half. I weigh quite a lot for my height and I am sturdy, but I have around 18% body fat which is quite low for a woman my age (late 40s).

Well, we can call it fat bashing - it doesn’t make the fact go away, though. Western countries are in general fat. Driven by number of factors but the food in the supermarkets is a big one.

Saying a size 12 is fat doesn’t exactly buy you much support. I know people with size 12 bodies who have amazing figures.

I think body positivity is a good thing. The more you shame people the more they’re hidden away eating, it isn’t healthy. They’re unlikely to exercise in public knowing people like you are judging. I follow Rebel Fit who is brilliant, very anti diet because anyone who knows someone who has done Slimming World etc knows it’s a con, people lose tons of weight only to put it back on.

The only thing that will work is not eating UPFs and reeducation when it comes to cooking and nutrition, but even so some people are built bigger than others. You’re fighting genetics trying to make someone naturally bigger into someone tiny.

Shaming people is just destructive, so I totally disagree with you, it achieves nothing.

I wouldn't say a size 12 is fat. I'm a size 10 standing at 5'3" and I've never been overweight. I do wear a size 12 in a dressing gown, coat or a jacket to allow for being already dressed and so it doesn't feel tight or restrictive. I have noticed a few high-ish profile overweight influencers have passed away recently:

Taylor LeJeune
Dr Cat Pausé
Brittany Sauer
Jamie Lopez

Heart failure, difficulty breathing and joint problems are all factors of being overweight. Being overweight is nothing to celebrate or encourage.

Likewise being underweight is dangerous; at my lowest, I weighed around 6.5st. I wasn't deliberately avoiding food, I had no access to it. I tried to get help, but because I was a teenager, most adults just assumed I was an anorexic, self-obsessed, overly-emotional, vain bag of crazy. My then boyfriend now husband was a massive help to get me out of that situation. His mother now my MIL thought I was a parasite. But like I said, teenagers are often misunderstood.

Over the last 15 or so years, I've noticed a swing from 'thinspo' (thin inspiration, like Eugenia Cooney) to 'body positivity' (being obese). The pendulum will always swing back.

I’m not actually shaming anybody.

I wasn’t trying to be super elaborate in my post either.

I called out a few main themes. Yes, there will be a lot of detail and nuance for each individual but on the whole the points still hold true.

You're talking about two different things. Being overweight, fat, obese and dealing with the impact of this is different to body positivity.
Body positivity is about feeling worthy, confident and beautiful regardless of your physical body. It doesn't mean you can't be working on improving your physical self, just that you don't have to hate what you see in the mirror until you get to your goal.
Being fat isn't great, and no fat person is unaware of this, but it doesn't mean that you have to be filled with self loathing.
If being fat/obese is the worst thing about someone, I don't think they're doing that bad. I can think of loads of traits that are more disgusting than a bit (or a lot) of extra padding.