To be AMAZED at this cms calculation?

[whatnowws]

Recently split from DS’s dad. He won’t communicate or see ds, so after several weeks I contacted cms. They are getting in touch with him but… the claim is for 730 a month?!? He earns almost 80k? How can this be right?

meanwhile, I’m earning 46k and paying 1,700 in nursery costs and all other costs for ds?

how on earth is that supposed to be fair?! This calculation is also assuming he continues not to see ds. If he wants him a night or more then costs reduce further… basically he can do what he wants and I’m expected to pick up the financial pieces no matter what.

No, because parents are not paid to provide care for their own children

Not strictly true, parents get benefits that childless people don’t.

Yes, you are right. They go to the resident parent if they split up though, the non-resident parent gets none.

@curioscurio
Grandparents should be paid for unpaid child care then?

@Naunet
Even in cases of 50:50 shared care only 1 parent can claim child benefit and by claiming child benefit then can claimCM even if 50:50 care

Where did I say it went to both?!!!

No you said parents get paid for providing child care via child benefit as a reason that NRP should be charged a child care rate for the hours the child is with RP. Based on the child benefit figure parents earn about 12p an hour but £3k a month charge to NRP is the same right

Also if RP are paid £3 a month in child care this will be classed as taxable earnings. Child care provision is inspected and accountable.

Gets complicated doesn't it

oops I think you've joined together posts by @Naunet and @curioscurio but neither of them said fully what you commented on.

Not exactly, what I said was:

Not strictly true, parents get benefits that childless people don’t

Which they do. I didn’t say anything about how much or how many hours a NRP should pay, just that I believe it’s only fair that both parents cover child care costs. I think you’re confusing me with another poster?

@Naunet
Sorry i have confused you and thought you were the person who said NRP should pay £3k a month regardless of income

Do you have credible solutions or are you still spouting bullshit?

You've suggested a string of people to contact. You clearly have neither knowledge or experience. You're a timewaster.

You remind me of the posters who tells people to have a paracetamol and get a plaster, when they need an ambulance.

No worries! To be fair I did defend that poster, so easily confused.

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this - I can’t see it from scanning through - but how about the 15 hours childcare for working parents that kicks in from September for children aged 9 months plus? Doesn’t solve the underlying problem, but any use? I know it will still leave a huge bill but I expect you’d be eligible with both parents working - you get a code when you do your next tax-free childcare confirmation and pass that to the nursery.

It's precisely what this thread is about - CMS, and most people here are saying that all NRP's are evil and should pay more. Raising maintenance across the board would be unfair.

There are plenty of fathers who'd like to spend more time caring for their children but are prevented by the RP.

If a mother does not want to split care 50-50 then she can normally choose not to. Courts etc may suggest that co-parenting is normally a good idea but they'll say it works best in low conflict situations so all the mother needs to do is create conflict - even if the conflict is only over the time split.
Or a mother can move away citing family / support reasons, the courts will normally not force a woman to stay somewhere that'll damage her and thus damage her children so they'll allow the move and it'd be an unusual set of circumstances where the children remained with the father instead of the mother.

Courts cost a huge amount of money, take years and will normally make the mother the RP.

Even if the father's keen to take 50% responsibility the mother will be able to argue she provided more childcare during her maternity leave.
The judge will say "yes you're an excellent father, yes the mother's exaggerated some things and mislead the court. The father should see the children on alternate weekends and wednesday nights." the Judge will then say some infuriating platitude about "it's not the number of nights or the number of hours it's quality time that counts". "Quality time ffs", any time with children can be quality time - helping with homework, taking them to the supermarket, ferrying them too and from clubs (seems to be the best time to get teenagers to talk is in the car).
Schools, local authorities, doctors, Cafcass and especially the CMS will then treat the NRP differently from the RP. (society is utterly biased against men when it comes to children anyway).

If you increase the CM across the board, as OP and most mums here would want, that will unfairly push many NRPs into poverty and also hurt their children. It'd end up with more situations where NRPs who'd like to be the primary carer are deprived of their children and then pushed into poverty to give money to the RP so the RP can spend the money on childcare which the NRP would love to be allowed to provide. Many NRPs have to provide bedrooms, clothes, food etc to their children and follow them around the country, but still have to pay several hundred a month to their ex because mum has the children 4 nights a month more. Saying an NRP should always meet 50% of all childcare costs is also an unreasonable blank cheque.
(yes OP alleges her ex is a scumbag who abandoned his children, but not all NRPs are)

He should pay more to cover the outgoings and other costs of bringing up a child

Im sure many have suggested you are grabby, are wealthy already blah blah blah but pah he should pay.

We are the NRPs and we were the ones who contacted CMS because we were sick of arguments about how much the RP thought we should pay, so we made a claim via CMS and haven't needed to argue about it in 8 years.

The idea it covers the bare minimum is nonsense as well. We pay around £300 pcm, which covers way more than half the expenses for an average school age child.

We have a younger child and she doesn't cost anything like £600pcm to raise.

As it will for OP when the child is no longer in full time nursery.

@MrsSunshine2b I’m not trying to be combative, but I don’t understand the reference to the plural of NRPs? I assume you are the mother’s ex’s new partner/wife. That doesn’t make you a non resident parent. It’s only your husband or partner’s responsibility to pay for his child and there was no ‘we’ about making a CMS claim. If you think 300 a month is half a child’s costs you are - with respect - a little deluded. Wraparound care even in school is circa 400 a month.

That's a matter of opinion surely, and not one size fits all.

My ex never had the dc over night. 6 hours per week, if he didn't have other plans. Therefore he didn't need a home big enough to accommodate them.

I did. A room in a shared house was £400, which is what I'd have if it was just me. A 2 bedroom house was £800. So that's 400 difference just on rent alone. I actually worked out all the costs of my dc a few years ago. I wish I'd kept the calculations.

£300 covers way more than half? I doubt it. I spend that just on food for my DS. If you have a younger child, you might not know how much it costs to feed and clothe a teenage lad. You'll see.

Yes, I'm the stepparent, we are the non-resident family and our finances are completely shared.

SD does not need wraparound care, she is a teenager now anyway, but her Mum is a TA and when she was younger I worked P/T and would have happily picked her up and provided care for her any time after school. Her Mum chose to send her to afterschool club once a week, but we made it clear that I could do it.

I'm not at all deluded and I'm very happy to show you the breakdown of costs for my DD if you'd like.

SD used to be with us 2-3 nights per week which meant we had most of the same essential costs as DD anyway (spare bedroom, clothing, school and clubs uniforms, toys, packed lunches) and also the same "luxury" costs (family holidays, days out, birthday and Christmas presents). The only real difference in costs were the fees for her extra-curricular activities which our maintenance covered more than the total amount of.

As she got older she wanted to be more with her friends and had more homework so didn't want to come to us as often, so we moved away to be near family, our maintenance went up as now it works out as around 1 night a week and we see her in school holidays and a few term time weekends, so in addition to maintenance we pay for her travel to and from where we now live.

It's quite rare for children to be in wraparound care 5 days a week and a little unfair tbh, 8am-6pm Mon-Fri is a very long week for a primary school child and leaves little to no family time or time for extra-curricular activities or just down time.

I have girls. £300 is our shopping bill for a month for the entire family. Either your DS lives off UPFs and fillet steak or you gave birth to an elephant. I do not for one minute believe that a child needs £300 food to survive for a month.

If you genuinely think a child only costs £600/month to raise you either don't need to work or work just school day/ term time or have family providing free childcare.
I don't think you have included housing costs either. Increasing from 1-2 or 2-3 bedrooms will already cost you several hundred pounds more/ month.
When you have a teenager (especially a male teenager who eats for England), they will cost considerably a lot in food, clothes, etc.
The CMS calculations fall very much on the low side of what is actually needed.

SD is a teenager and we both work full-time, we requested and were granted flexible hours under the laws which require employers to give due consideration to these requests in order to allow one of us to be at home when DD is not at preschool or nursery. She spends 30 hours a week in childcare and yes, we are fortunate that she spends one day a week with a grandparent in term time until she starts school in September.

It's impossible to compare exact housing costs because a 3 bed terrace with front and back gardens does not compare with 1 room in a shared house, but as NRP if you have your child at all, they need a bedroom anyway.

In SD's case they live with her Mum's Mum so have no housing costs anyway, and she shares a bedroom with her brother so there's zero costs unless you count furniture, which again, as NRP your child will need a bed.

School holidays we just have to juggle, holiday club would be around £700 to cover the full 6 weeks so slightly more for those 2 months IF you choose not to use any annual leave during that time. We're taking 3 weeks of annual leave, a few days WFH, Grandma is having a few days here and there and the rest she will be in holiday club.

Ha. He eats double what I do!