To be AMAZED at this cms calculation?

[whatnowws]

Recently split from DS’s dad. He won’t communicate or see ds, so after several weeks I contacted cms. They are getting in touch with him but… the claim is for 730 a month?!? He earns almost 80k? How can this be right?

meanwhile, I’m earning 46k and paying 1,700 in nursery costs and all other costs for ds?

how on earth is that supposed to be fair?! This calculation is also assuming he continues not to see ds. If he wants him a night or more then costs reduce further… basically he can do what he wants and I’m expected to pick up the financial pieces no matter what.

So the woman is not supposed to continue with a career? The man who left can. But the woman left with the child is expected to give up her earning power? This is ridiculous.

The CMS should cover half the costs including childcare so both parents can work. The childcare costs SHOULD be considered child costs.
How are people arguing this?

The nursery is 1700. He is paying less that 800.

So OBVIOUSLY she is paying. MORE THAN HALF of the nursery costs and ALL other costs (food, utilities etc)

Why are you possibly pointing out that she has to pay too???

It should be that he pays HALF the childcare and then HALF all the other costs. And in my mind he should also be paying extra because she has all the responsibility to parent. And he has none.

How is anyone arguing against this?

@TVD2103

Why should he pay for you to basically go to work? Because that’s what nursery costs are.
Because SHE is enabling him to go to work by having integral responsibility. Do you really not see this???

He should pay half childcare
Half other expenses and an extra amount for her as she is taking all the responsibility.

Why are you looking at what she is getting rather than looking at watt HE is getting.

He is getting his child housed and fed
His child taken care of so he can work
All responsibility for the child's entire life managed by someone else

He should be paying for these luxuries. No?

I would love it if you had any credible solutions.

@MrsSunshine2b well you’ll just have to take my word for it then… I can assure you his employer would have a very dim view.

Also, decent people pay willingly for their child and don’t need a government body to monitor them.

@durundundun i think @TVD2103 is either a deadbeat themselves or in dire need of broadening their educational horizons. They’ve gone quiet so perhaps are doing just that. One can hope!

I’ve been following this post (with outrage). I’m sorry you’re in this position and feel it’s so unfair that one parent can abdicate all responsibility in terms of caring for their child and then have such limited financial input (in terms of the cost of the child/their income). Apologies if I’ve missed this, but if he’s so concerned about image, would having a discussion with his parents help? I do know one mother where the grandparents assisted financially and had contact despite dad being pretty much awol.

@Psychologymam unfortunately both his parents are very elderly and in care homes. I wouldn’t feel comfortable approaching them about it and I’m not sure they would even understand. It’s odd as he was pretty decent when we were in a relationship. He’s said some awful things since though and clearly does not think any element of our son’s care is down to him in any way.

You sound like a really caring and level headed person. So bizarre of him - It is absolutely crap and while I think you should continue to put it to him, know that he is losing his relationship with his son. Your son will be fine with a great mother - I hope you have your own family and good friends to be a support network.

@Psychologymam thank you for your kind post x

It’s odd as he was pretty decent when we were in a relationship.

Its amazing how common that is.

My ex spent a lot of money on IVF for our girls to happen and then decided he didn’t want me anymore (fair enough) so they weren’t remotely his concern anymore (not fair enough).

It’s bizarre how easily some men can just cut the link.

@Botharms

It’s going to be hard for the child psychologically with their father abandoning them in every regard. Dealing with the mother’s angst as you’ve noted. And then going to school where the majority will have regular 2 parent set ups.

So yes I do think all of that warrants support financially, emotionally, whatever’s needed. No doubt Mum is capable and will create a strong support network. But what the father has done is unspeakably cruel.

Ok great so mediation is an option for her 👍

To reaffirm @whatnowws

I do not believe the state should pay for your child rather than his Dad.

I’m realistic that you likely have no claim on him beyond the CM calculated, at least without considerable, and perhaps wasted, legal expenses, which in themselves seem unwarranted as the time period where the boy is in fully self funded childcare is relatively short.

If you have savings over 16k that is up to you. FYI you can put the savings in your pension and/or set up a trust for your son (speak to CAB/DWP to confirm) and this won’t be included for UC assessment purposes.

If you want to keep the savings as is that is your decision.

Again, yes it should be Dad, but he has let you down, so there is no shame claiming for some help; after all, you’ve paid in enough.

OP I'm a lone parent, my ex never paid a bean so I really understand your frustration at him and the system.

Things do get easier once they start school, I say easier, it's a bit cheaper but after school clubs or child minders still cost but not nursery levels.

I really hope you are in a role where you can progress your career/earnings over time.

And kudos to you, this is not easy. I've been lonely parenting for 15 years. It gets easier.

It’s not that we think the state should pay for it rather than the dad. We are advising you how the calculations are worked.

Based on the information you have told us, several people have said you are entitled to UC. The UC makes up the difference between your monthly salary and Ex-partners meaning effectively you’re both contributing the same. Allowing you both to then have a reasonable standard of living.

What actaully needs to change is the extortionate cost of childcare but the government would need to subsidise this anyway, so swings and roundabouts how it is paid.

She has already said she has savings that mean she can't claim UC.

Having a cms claim against you very much does make you look bad both as a human being and a father.

CMS is the minimum that you can pay as a non resident parent before a resident parent can ask the state to intervene to force you to support your child. Obviously, if you were baring half of the actual cost of raising your child, paying consistently, then there would be no claim.

CMS isn’t applicable to situations where the parents are doing 50/50 shared care. So obviously if you were doing half of the work of raising your kids then there would be no claim.

CMS don’t get involved in situations where the parents agree maintenance between themselves informally. So obviously if you were treating the other parent of your children kindly, generously and with integrity there would be no claim.

@FawnFrenchieMum

The issue is that she has savings beyond £16,000.

A lot of people, usually women liable to be the main carer, will plan their finances prior to leaving a partner. But if he left her or she didn’t realise the financial implications of the break up then she won’t have had a chance to do it.

There is still a chance that money could be manoeuvred into pension/trust and so forth, but she would have to be very careful to seek legal advice, advice from CAB and so on prior to doing this to ensure it couldn’t be seen as deprivation of assets.

For the amount of time the child will need this high cost childcare, I’m not sure it, or legal action against the ex is worth it. But I am not a lawyer so OP would have to investigate this herself.

You are right, it is swings and roundabouts, for anyone on average or lower income, UC is there to support with childcare. It is only above average to higher earners who have to pay more substantial amounts, which seems fair. Though pretty soon that will be very limited too.

I disagree.

seen many a claim on here and irl where the RP is of the opinion the nrp isn’t paying enough.

it often backfires and the CMS is reduced.

but people do claim, even when they are getting a decent amount or 50:50 care.

o/p for example. If her ex had volunteered £1000 a month, she disagrees and thinks the amount should be higher to cover nursery fees. In all likelihood she would have gone to the CMS anyway, and again been surprised to find he’s not obliged to cover nursery costs.

the nrp’s behaviour makes no difference. If the RP wants to make a cms claim because they are misled into thinking they’ll get more, or out of spite, or whatever reason, they will.

It's not a male female decide through. My step children lived with us and the mum never paid a penny in maintenance.

Another reason to use CMS is it reduces conflict on agreeing a fair amount. Reduction in conflict is in the best interests of the children

You can have up to £16,000 in savings and still claim UC.

Not quite. She said 'nobody is entitled to UC if you have savings'. Which isn't actually correct, unless she has over £16,000 in savings in which case she's pretty comfortably off for a single mum who also gets over £700 a month in CMS anyway. She seems to be ranting about the injustice and jumping down everyone else's necks but not actually listening or understanding how CMS works.

@TheTartfulLodger

for the final time on this thread…

i am not entitled to UC

Yep. Sdc wanted to live with us at one point as he wanted to go to a top 6th form within walking distance of our house.

mum’s words were “l’m not paying to have my child taken off me” she refused point blank to pay maintenance saying if dh wanted the child to live with him he should pay.

absolutely could not see the irony that dh had been paying for 14 years for the child to live with her.