It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

Because I am not naive I asked for specific schools and excerpts from their admission booklet stating that they guve bursaries ...basing on merit in addition to financial circumstances.

@Mirabai

Show me globally a country where even 10% of children from an ordinary background have a grade 8 by age 11.

It costs a huge amount of money, time and effort to get a child there.

Even the one you quoted is the child of a luxury hotel manager and university lecturer, so not exactly average

“1The likelihood of anyone who doesn't already have well off parents getting a grade 8 by 11 is virtually 0 anyway.”

Nonsense, many of us teach our own kids for free you know! Who do you think the parents of many NYO members are? Kids of musicians, often not that well off. And there is funding.

Bursaries based on academics at your school and you seem to have taken that as a general rule for all schools - when in practice private schools cover a wide range of different ability levels, ethos, focus.

"Because I am not niave I asked for specific schools and excerpts from their admission booklet stating that they guve bursaries ...basing on merit in addition to financial circumstances."

I am sure there are some that publish that, I am also sure there are others that don't.

It does all depend on the cohort, some years there are fewer pupils that need bursaries than others. Where competition allocation most certainly does happen on merit and need.

Exactly. Classical musician pay being what it is.

"Who do you think the parents of many NYO members are? Kids of musicians, often not that well off. And there is funding."

Kids of musicians who have access to this sort of thing? Kids who DON'T need to pay for lessons cause their parents can do it?

Not sure this is the winning argument you think it is.

I wouldn’t say 10% of any population have the ability to be grade 8 at 11.

But if you want to look at countries where significant numbers of ordinary kids achieve that look at China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan; Russia and E.European countries - where every city has a conservatoire and young students are sent according to merit; and S.America.

University lecturers do not have hugely high incomes.

It costs a lot of time and effort, + the price of weekly lessons that is all. The key is a fantastic teacher.

Names of those schools and where is it about in the admission documents, please. Otherwise it is just a hot air.

It's not hot air, it's how it works.

and if you are naïve enough to that it doesn't then fair play, but I'm a Nigerian Prince and if you put 500 into my bank account in a week I'll send you a million.

In most schools there is only so much money for bursaries, most of the time getting them is highly competitive and the barrier for being offered a place with a bursary is higher than being offered a place than if you pay full fees.

You seem to think that all schools function as yours does, whereas in my experience there is far more diversity and flexibility than you seem to be aware of.

Also - there are generally more bursaries than one per year. So it’s possible that Sally and Jane could both receive one.

@Mirabai

"Also - there are generally more bursaries than one per year. So it’s possible that Sally and Jane could both receive one"

Its an anecdote to explain the point.

In reality, Sally would have got in if she was paying the fees, but she doesn't ( and nor do anyone who needs a bursary in that grade band) because there are more able students with similar financial needs who performed better.

What point though? Jane and Sally may both end up with a bursary. Or one or both may choose a different school despite being offered a place.

You are missing the point.

I'm going to bed.

Your point is that all private schools in the country operate on exactly the same terms as your own - which is demonstrably false. G’night.

"Your point is that all private schools in the country operate on exactly the same terms as your own - which is demonstrably false"

Nope, my point is that the majority operate in this way due to needing to get the best out of the capital they employ.

You seem to want to pretend its all philanthropic, it really isn't.

But anyway.

Labour are going to win, and I'll be proved right that the majority of private school parents will keep their children there anyway.

Mumsent just likes to have this myth of the parent who makes sacrifices and good choices, just like anyone could, to do it. Rather than admit actually they're very highly well off and buying privilege for their kids.

Its the latter, not the former, and should ( and will be ) taxed as such.

I thought you were going to bed. Yet here you are generalising about a wide range of schools with different ability levels and ethos on the basis of one school.

You seem to want to pretend its all philanthropic, it really isn't.

Can you point to where I have said that?

Its in the ethos of your points and there when you claimed that your school was now removing bursaries.

I'm ever more in favour of this tax now.

What are you talking about?? What does “the ethos of your points” even mean?

And I’ve never claimed my school was removing bursaries. In fact they’re increasing them.

In any case, bursaries are usually not based on philanthropy. Every year there will be children who would have got in had they been paying fees who do not cause they needed finance.

Its the same in US universities too :)

This is such nonsense it’s just not worth my time. Night.

Yes it is.

Private schools are not going to be badly effected.

The parents whinging about it have made first class arses of themselves.

Then I am keen to see that description. Because I have seen aliens.

and I'll be proved right that the majority of private school parents will keep their children there anyway.

there are 554,000 pupils in private schools. Even if 20 perc only will leave it is is still more than 110,000 who will move to state school and it will pose a huge problem.And this would be a minority