It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

Our non selective prep had a pass rate of pretty much 100% for the grammar exams. Lots of kids sat it, sometimes as a back up if they didn’t get in to their private choice. It’s area dependent. We have private schools with much harder 11 plus exams than the grammar exam. The grammar exam is fairly easy to tutor for, so most kids stand a very good chance of passing the exam if they have enough tuition (I’m not saying that’s right or fair).

100% of the children sitting it doesn’t necessarily mean much

Superselective grammar or normal one?

Quite a lot of children sat it, with a wide range of ability. I think it’s a normal selective. The most academic children often don’t even sit that exam. I was replying to a poster who had mentioned grammars in general - not just super selective ones.

Great idea, so I’ll have the money so pay towards the military back please- I don’t agree with war, I have private health care so that’ll be my taxes back there,
I’ll take the school money but give it to our state school, I have a private pension so would like to stop contributing to the state pension, I also want to stop paying anything towards elder care, and can my DSis have her contribution to education back please as she has no kids and had deffo paid enough towards the education she received?

If you are at a prep most kids will take this exam. That is not the case at state schools. That's the only reason you got such a high pass rate. At my child's state secondary children are beating the private kids hands down at GCSEs. But no they didn't pass grammar exams because they didn't take it but when it matters they beat the private kids every time. My kids doing GCSEs now, he is predicted all 7,8 and 9s as are most of his friends, the kids I now in private are no where near that.

There aren't many grammars now and those that exist would count as "super selective" There would be absolutely no chance that 100% of children sitting the exam at private school would get into grammars in my area. The "pass mark" doesn't actually mean much as they take in the children with the highest scores so most of those who get the pass mark don't get in.

That’s why I said it’s area dependent. Some areas and schools will be affected more than others by the VAT situation.

It’s school and area dependent. In our area, there is no state school achieving anywhere near the GCSE results of the top performing privates. The top performing state schools get similar results to the mid range privates. There are many private schools where the vast majority of pupils are achieving 7-9s in all subjects.

That isn't what you originally asked - which was a list of current vacancies and where specific children are in that list provided to you.

And yes, obviously each school has its own admissions criteria. Each school makes this available.

If you know how in-year school admissions work, why would you be outraged at the council not giving you information that you know the individual schools hold.

Of course councils overall try to plan school admissions over the longer term and using the various returns that state schools have to make and so on.

There aren't many grammar schools in the country and apart from Kent, I think most would count as "super selective" now.

Northern Ireland has loads and about 50% of kids go to them. BIG difference is though - it’s not a class thing like in England, the grammars are full of WC children.

We didn’t look into in detail as it was never a school we’d consider for logistical reasons as much as anything. All I know is that almost 100% of children that sat it from our prep passed. If it is super selective, it just goes to show how ridiculous the grammar system is when a non selective school can get a large number of pupils to pass the exam. That’s the point. They are easy to tutor for, and schools often prep their pupils. That’s why previous posters have pointed out that introducing VAT will lead to an increase in private school pupils taking grammar places. Posters have said that they won’t because they’re no more intelligent than state pupils. The point is that private pupils are more likely to pass the exam because they’ve had more prep. Is that fair? No, obviously not.

‘If you know how in-year school admissions work, why would you be outraged at the council not giving you information that you know the individual schools hold.’

I do wonder at the private parents demanding facts and figures, and details in schools. Is that how you behaved when selecting private schools??
It works much the same in state, you go and look around the schools - in your catchment if that’s a thing in your area- you decide which you like best, you apply for 3 and are allocated 1. If you aren’t happy with that you appeal or go on the waiting list for your preference - and often by Sept you get that preference.
But no money changes hands.
It IS the parents responsibility to apply for a place, no-one from the council or school rocks up to find YOU and sort YOUR kid out.

Also this ‘let’s all apply and crash the system approach’ - it’s only going you adversely affect YOUR child because councils and schools aren’t going to take it seriously. They’ll just offer you a place at the undersubscribed school, or stick you on a waiting list and wait to see what happens in Sept. The can read, you know, and are more than aware of the ‘campaigns’ to stop the VAT change.

There are probably one or two outside Kent. If it is a super selective then gaining the passmark is meaningless as they take the children with the highest marks. There is no way children who are less academic will be able to get in regardless of whether they have a tutor.

‘You are assuming that private kids have more intelligence than state kids’

Which clearly is absolute bullshit. Having the money to be tutored within an inch of your life to pass an exam by rote, or have barriers moved for you, goalposts shifted, exceptions made etc does not equal intelligence.

Look at the rich, IDIOTS currently running the country -
most went to ‘top’ schools but they haven’t got a jot of common sense, creativity or critical thinking amongst them. Which is what happens when you teach children to dress the same, look the same, think the same, measure success the same.

Thick as mince some of them.

They all got offered places. I’d say that many children will be able to pass the exam with enough tutoring. Without that extra tutoring they are less likely to be offered a place. That’s the problem with the grammar system.

Having the money to be tutored within an inch of your life to pass an exam by rote, or have barriers moved for you, goalposts shifted, exceptions made etc does not equal intelligence.

You are correct. However, it does mean they are more likely to pass the exam. I’m absolutely not saying that I agree that’s how it should be. It’s how it is though. Many of the exams are easy to tutor for. Those who can’t afford tutors stand less chance of getting in. It’s entirely unfair that other pupils are getting pushed out, but that’s how the system works. I can’t understand why there’s not more uproar about inequality within the state system.

If they all got offered a place and they were of varying academic ability then it certainly is not a "superselective". The tutoring is a problem but a lot (perhaps most) of the state school pupils will get it too.

To be fair, I did say that I didn’t think it was super selective!

They are easy to tutor for but you don't need to pay a tutor. You can buy examples of 11+ questions in WH smiths etc and do those.

What about families who can’t afford sets of workbooks? When people can’t afford to eat, how are they going to pay £10 per book? Not all children have parents who know how to navigate the system and some wouldn’t be able to help their child with the prep. A generation or two ago, barely anyone was tutored. 11 plus workbooks didn’t exist. All children went to school one day and were told to take the test. It was a much fairer system than the one today. The inequalities within the state system today are appalling.

Yes, I am not saying there are no inequalities (although where I live the children who have been on free school meals at some point in the previous years do get some free tuition from the grammar schools) but I don't think those who go to private schools are at a huge disadvantage to most children who have gone to state schools.

Yes I know this, it’s my entire point, I’ve asked our admissions what the wait lists are - they won’t confirm. Previously I have been told the waiting list size and the number at which my child sits. Why they are refusing to give these details (previously given to me by the same local authority) is suspicious in and of itself.

So they have given you the information once but you have asked again?

That's not my assumption at all. There have been many studies that show high income families are much more likely to get kids into grammar. For instance by paying for private tutors or sending them to private schools that literally train them for taking the 11 plus. There's a private junior school by me that has advertising posters giving the percent of children they have get into grammar.

It's meant to be a merit based system but it's not and less kids going private school will make this worse in my opinion.

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2018/mar/children-wealthier-families-much-more-likely-secure-grammar-school-places