It's a private school one.....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Many threads on MN ... I want to know this: why haven't Labour given any info on their modelling of what will likely happen and the different scenarios that could play out when they impose VAT? It matters - because if they get thus wrong ... and a shed load of kids leave private because their families have scrimped to send them there ... the state sector in some councils will quickly be overwhelmed with kids needing state places that does not exist....which could be a lose lose for everyone! You don't build a new school and resource it in a month.... these things take years . I feel for all kids as they will all lose out if this happens and labour having got contingency in place.
How would you feel if your child is in a good state school , perhaps they get some SEND support...and suddenly there is an influx of private kids as they need the spaces. Class sizes go up to 40, all SEND provision gets cut as not enough funds, extra curricular gets cut and teachers are even more stressed, so the vicious circle if teacher shortages now intensifies....the spiral continues for years to come. Who has won?? No one ....
What are your thoughts on this ?
I don't disagree with the principle that private is a luxury and probably should pay VAT... what I disagree with is the notion you can just implement something that will fundamentally shift things on a seismic way in one big bang. No thought whatsoever. Tell me if you agree or have a different view and why ?

I'm sure it will encourage some students to work harder but the improvement will be also be due to the private school kids themselves doing well and behaving well if they move en masse to a school. The fact that there will be more parents with an interest in education will have an impact too.
Why do you think some state schools are much better than others if it is not down to the students who go there and their parents?

@Mirabai private schools already entrench privilege

My point is, is that they just aren't charities though are they?

A charity is for the public benefit as defined in law. I struggle to see how private schools really achieve this aim. From what I know of history many of these schools were established by philanthropists with the aim of educating children from somewhat 'humble' backgrounds as they would have phrased it.

This is different to what we have now whereby they tend to serve those from a wealthier section of society.

Yes they may offer a small number of bursaries and on the occasion offer facilities. But it's leaps away from what actual charities do. They should be treated as businesses.

Agreed.

To be honest the funniest thing about this is that people are so unashamed to be hypocritical when it comes to private schools.

When fees went up at inflation plus 4% and Johnny, whose parent was a doctor, was priced out, but the school got a new climbing wall (they are the latest thing in private schools), no one cared much. When they went up by the same rate the next year and Jessica, whose parents were country solicitors, was priced out, but the new 6th form I.T suite was opened, no one cared much. But when one’s own children are affected and the school doesn’t even have something flashy to show for it, my word people’s backs are up!

Private school isn’t a right, it is a choice you can make if you can afford it. And they are not stupid, if enough people leave, they will make cost savings and not pass part or all of the VAT rise on. And those schools who can’t make it work probably don’t deserve to be in business.

👏👏👏

No shit. So let’s make them even more elite. Result.

I fell down a ONS rabbit hole and can’t see any baby Tarquin babies being born at all recently ;-)

Anyway you were clearly mocking private school kids by your tone, but that’s fair game it seems on these threads. They have money so I guess that’s fine!!

I would make them as elite possible tbh. For a tiny section of society, so much so that 'normal' people would never consider them. I'd focus my attention on making state schools successful places where students can achieve and don't feel like second class citizens. Can't be done overnight but I think the private school model is awful.

private school kids themselves doing well and behaving well if they move en masse to a school.
yes but they probably would have done so at private school and I am not talking about them. I am talking about the other children.

The fact that there will be more parents with an interest in education will have an impact too.
Yes but how? It keeps being said but you cannot seem to be able to explain this. Can you give me a specific example as to how having a private school child in the class will have an impact on the educational experience of the other children sitting next to them. What will this private school child’s parents do to make an impact? I am not after a generic bland response.

@OppositeOfProcrastinate "Anyway you were clearly mocking private school kids by your tone, but that’s fair game it seems on these threads."

I find the stereotyping unnecessary and tedious too. But I also find the "under achieving bullying chair thrower" stereotype unnecessary and tedious too. I know some Tarquins, and I've met some chair throwers. There aren't many of either. Maybe we could just stop?

Because there are not very many people who use private education, it's 7.%

Plenty of issues that affect people far more important

Private school parents desperately trying to protect their privilege here again I see.

Threaten to leave the country? You won't.

Threaten that you will bump up house prices in good school catchment areas? Lets be honest, you pay on average 18k for schooling, you live in the nicest areas of town anyway.

Threaten to leave the private and flood the state. You won't.

This will make marginal difference to numbers, and even the IFS estimate is slightly over conservative.

I reckon less than 2% will leave.

I've got the solution!

You opted out of the state system for your kids? You stay out of the stay system when it comes to university.

We'll charge you the international fee, and then lower the fees for state school kids.

But who cares that they won’t be happy. Forget they are actual children and gloat at how far they will have to fall.

this is what bothers me most - all the comments that are almost gleeful that private school kids will end up in the worst schools because these are the ones with places. Surely no children should have to be in schools that are sub standard irrespective of family wealth and the policy does nothing to address this.

The vast majority of professional job familes - teachers, police, nurses etc..wouldn't be able to afford private school in a month of Sundays

You mean the highest income familes so small numbers really in comparison. I'm sure Labour know this.

Since when are we talking about one privately educated child moving to a state school. It's interesting how the narrative changes constantly changes. According to threads on here they will be moving en masse. If only one child is leaving I agree it will have no impact.

7% already is a tiny section of society. What does making them more elite achieve? I would make them more accessible personally, less connected to privilege.

No-one would disagree with improving state schools, but policy will not make the blindest bit of difference.

The % will vary so much by school - the really elite private / public schools will see little to no impact. The impact will be felt in the smaller schools and will no doubt see a number close down. Empty buildings as they won’t be suitable for state school settings and teacher redundancy - unfortunately only a small proportion of these teachers will apply to state schools because like the displaced children it will be the toughest schools looking for staff and many will instead retire early or change career

In case I didn't make myself clear 😊 I'm just totally against the model. The amounts of money involved are insane. And you don't even have free third level . So the kids are dragging around debt for ages. I really do think it's crazy. And from the thread, it does feel like some people just think 'Tarquin's gone to private secondary, job done, wipes hands'. There isn't a huge amount of consideration given to helping kids with their work by the sounds of it. My 'Tarquin' is heading off to big school in September, she's decided to do Spanish rather than French (which I could provide reasonable help with) but we'll be learning together. For free!

There should be no substandard schools in the first place. Plenty of kids are already ending up in those schools. Why should we care more now that it might rich kids?
It should already be an important issue. It shouldn't become more so because of this small group of otherwise privileged children. Anyone who only cares now, take a good hard look at yourself.

Oooh Xenia is here.

"loss of child benefit, loss of annual personal tax allowacne" oh come on, you are an arch Tory and backed the benefits cuts.

People who can afford to send two children to private school will be able to find the money, its just a matter of spending priorities.

Isn't it funny how the well to do are always telling the poor how its just a question of priorities?

I agree.

Ok. Let’s say they move en masse. So each class has five extra private school pupils? How will it change the experience for the other kids?

That was my point that there shouldn’t be substandard schools but nothing is being done about that - instead there is a delight that private school pupils will end up in these as that’s where places exist!

the lack of addressing the underlying issues in the educational system is likely why home schooling numbers are increasing so much and why many parents have literally cut everything to try and put their kids through private schools.