Green Party pledge to reduce c section rates

[TTCaxristi]

Is this something a political party should even get involved in?

I had understood that a focus on keeping c sections below an arbitrary threshold was at least partially responsible for the Shrewsbury maternity scandal.

https://news.sky.com/story/shrewsbury-maternity-scandal-the-babies-who-died-in-the-uks-worst-hospital-childbirth-scandal-12576727

It looks as though the greens are reviewing the policy now but am I alone in finding this chilling? What does it say about their attitude to women? I really strongly believe that it’s up to the individual woman how she gives birth, and the focus on arbitrary targets is misguided at best and dangerous at worst.

YABU - this is something a political party should have a policy on
YANBU - this is not something a non medical entity should have policy on

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/green-party-nhs-lbc-b1162105.html#

Sorry my comment was badly worded. What I was trying to say is most women do not have c-sections.

That Green Party policy doc from April this year gave the impression that lots of women are having un-necessary (and expensive) c-sections and that needs to stop. And that impression simply isn’t true.

If a c-section is medically advisable it should be available and neither medic nor mother should be made to feel guilty about it.

There are so many things wrong with this.

This was WHOs policy back in 2009. They changed it? Why? Because evidence showed that it was crucial that those who needed a CS has access to one and restrictions on them were not only unhelpful but potentially dangerous.

It highlighted that births were becoming more complex due to older first time mothers, more underlying health conditions (due to better health care ironically) and more obesity.

Then there is the nice guidelines that changed around the same point saying that anyone who wanted a CS should have access to one because the clinical risks of a planned CS v a planned VB were not as high as people had previously said and that cost differences were negligible.

Then there's been several independent reviews into maternity services - I think all of them have highlighted that a lack of prompt access to a CS has tragic consequences and that one of the issues has been ideological or structural attitudes in the workplace affecting decision making to the detriment of women. A least one has commented on evangelical ideas of natural birth by midwives were actively dangerous.

Why are the greens going against every scientific research project, NICE, WHO and numerous reports into poor maternity care in this country?

It's mind boggling just how anti- education and anti-research this is. It's fundamentally harmful to women - plenty of evidence for this being appalling.

I personally am pro home birth and pro ELCS. Why? Because this is consistent with the data and women centred care which listens to the concerns of women rather than taking a paternalistic attitude that women must do things a particular way and do what they are told.

This is a sexist policy. Pure and simple it is anti woman.

Fucking bastards trying to be regressive and take us back more than 15 years.

Interestingly the default in china is a CS mainly due to a lack of staffing.

Cs can be scheduled 9 to 5 and once you get to a high enough rate are more cost effective than vbs (because you can staff less nights and weekends which are more expensive). Nice highlighted this and that it wasn't something to aspire to.

The greens have a kind of lovely perception - want to save the planet, wholesome, caring. In reality, they are fucking dangerous - this policy is outrageous. The medical professionals at the birth should decide whether a c section is needed. That’s the end of it. What a bloody ridiculous thing for them to have a policy on. I hope it loses them votes. Loony.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/green-party-nhs-lbc-b2556628.html

They're reviewing the policy, thankfully.

Listen, I don't like this policy either.
But, you know, even if The Green Party had a policy to turn the sky purple and rain jelly beans from the sky, I still think a vote for them is a benign act, because, with our current system they stand no chance of getting into power.
Many voting Green this time round are doing so as a protest vote against Labour's lurch to the right. Also, to protest against government inaction on the climate emergency; and the failure of both parties to call out the genocide in Gaza.
Does it mean they/we support every Green policy? Of course not.

The greens have a kind of lovely perception - want to save the planet, wholesome, caring. In reality, they are fucking dangerous

The, now pretty right-wing Labour Party (and the Tories obviously) are far more dangerous, as they are on course to actually be in power.
Their stance on Gaza is infinitely more deadly than any Green Party policy. As is their lack of plan to save the NHS.

WTF

Thank you for posting this op, as I wasn’t aware of it. If any Green member knocks on my door in the next few weeks, i shall be giving them a bollocking.

The Green Party hate women. They are showing us who they are, in plain sight. It’s chilling.

The people knocking on your door won't have invented this policy.
Most of The Green Party canvassers I've encountered have been sweet-natured, well-intentioned young people, who care passionately about the environment and peace. I couldn't be anything other than kind to them.
A better course of action would be to write to Green Party HQ.

If you are door knocking for a party in the run up to an election, you need to be prepared for constituents to bring up anything, especially if it’s a contentious issue which has pledged by the party. They are supposed to canvass and report back from the doorstep.

Being young and sweet is not relevant.

Also @MariaVT65 are you consistent with this? You know pregnant women, babies and children of all ages are enduring a living hell in Gaza right now. That's actually happening, in real time. Not just a pie-in-the-sky fantasy policy of The Green Party that will never come to pass.
Neither the Tories or Labour are doing anything to help, or calling the genocide what it is. Do you bring that up with Labour canvassers?

Weirdly specific. My youngest is 21 months and the maternity care was poor. Shortage of consultants made it hard to get the right appointments, an appointment system that kept issuing me several booking appointments, wrong dates for other appointments. And the ward was so inadequately staffed their only priority was getting you out about 28 hours after major abdominal surgery. I also got told on two occasions the best pain relief for me was paracetamol. I’d suggest these issues need addressing before they worry about how we give birth!

Also @MariaVT65 The Green Party are now listening to experts on this, and reviewing this policy -

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/green-party-nhs-lbc-b2556628.html

Of course, it was a hideous policy. Well , I don't know the details, but it certainly sounds that way. But, I do have to be fair here, and take note that they appear to be listening and amending.

I may have different priorities to you.

@TryingToSeeTheFunnySide Stop whataboutgaza’ing on women’s health issues in the UK.

I'm not doing that at all. I'm as appalled by this policy as much as anyone on this thread.
It's not whataboutery AT ALL!
The Green Party are not going to win the election! At most they'll get a handful of seats. So, no policy of theirs will be anything like as dangerous as any Labour or Tory policy. This policy will not come to pass.
If you care about women's health and babies lives (which I'm sure you do) Labour's policies on Gaza and the NHS should trouble you way more than this.

Nice to know they’re in favour of reducing women’s choices.

You’re still doing it.

The health of women and children is a top priority for me.
All I'm saying here is that people are being pretty inconsistent. The NHS is on its knees thanks to 14 years of austerity. That's an actual thing. A real thing that's happening. That really does put women's lives at risk.
This Green Party policy is a total non-threat, because they won't get into government in 2024.

This thread is about women’s health in THIS COUNTRY. Please start your own thread about gaza.

Nope. I've condemned the c-section policy robustly and completely. I'm asking people to be consistent.

You need to read the book Politics of Childbirth. Nothing really changed in the last 30 years since it was written. As for politics in general- everything is politics. From the laws on the permitted levels of additives in your loaf of bread to how many hours you can be made to work without a break

And as I said, i have different priorities to you so i will discuss what i like with the door knockers.

Absolutely batshit.

I chose to have sections after some research, and I'm pretty sure if men were the ones giving birth they would be standard procedure.

Noone has had a straight forward birth in our family. Episiotomy, forceps, lifelong incontinence have all happened as a result of vaginal birth.

Given the state of the NHS it seemed a no brainer.

Be stuck in a room with someone occasionally looking in on you, that person often very busy and overworked. Usually left in pain and alone except for family for hours.

Or be in a room where you and your baby are the sole focus of an entire team of people, including consultants and everything and everyone needed ready to go in case of emergency.