My 92-year-old mum thinks a Power of Attorney is “bossy”

[PoAornevermind]

She set a Power of Attorney up approx 20 years ago but has lost it and it is not registered.

She has stalled on either trying to find it or apply for another one for a months now. My sister spoke to her about it at the weekend and mum wanted to put it off until “later”. Today she told me it all sounded a bit “bossy”.

I have explained that she can appoint whoever she wants as PoA, but please do one as I don’t want to be left with a nightmare of dealing with banks etc, should it be needed. My relationship with my sister is very difficult so that would presumably just add to the issues.

Mum has no hesitation in accepting plenty of care and support from my sister and I over years. She is fully with it at the moment, fully mobile etc, just a bit forgetful at times.

If she loses capacity without a PoA, what might I be in for, and can I distance myself from the mess?

AIBU to feel I’m in a stressful position or should I just leave it? It is after all entirely her choice.

What is the general age that you should start thinking about this for your parent(s)?

The resistance to POA is hard to overcome. if my MIL is typical, there's a solid refusal to accept that they might need (more!) help one day, and, realistically, you want to put a POA in place to make YOUR life easier in the future.
There are lots more experiences on the Elderly Parents section on here.
Good luck.

MIL set up her POA back in 2012, and we registered it in 2019. Since then she's lost capacity and needed care and having the PoA has been a lifesaver - it's enabled DH and BIL to arrange and pay carers, and to put her house on the market to fund care now she's moved into a home. She was absolutely fine until she was 95, then had an infection and was hospitalised, was diagnosed with vascular dementia and it's all been downhill from there. She could easily live several more years as there's nothing life -threatening wrong with her. I have the professional skills to apply to the court of protection, but it would have been extra stress that we really didn't need at what was already an upsetting time for everyone.

If she won't engage, step back and drop the rope - in your shoes, OP, I wouldn't continue living with her as it could land you with enormous bills or being made homeless, depending on how the house is owned.

It's not about age. I have grant LPA in Health and Welfare to my sister and vice versa. We are middle-aged.
Kate Garraway didn't get it for her husband Derek Draper who later died after having Covid. They were in their 50s. It's not an age thing. That said, I'd hesitate to grant it to a spouse unless things were rock solid. I mean, if you were in your 40s you could grant it to your parents actually.

But if your parent has been diagnosed with, say, Parkinson's or some such thing then that should concentrate the mind as it's later than you think. Don't wait until it looks like you might need it.

As for the advice about the OP moving out of the family home... Not sure that's a good idea. If the mother is 92, the OP is what - 50s or 60s? Now, if her mother owns the home and moves out, the Council's Social Services will be ever so grateful - it means they can nab the house and use the capital from its sale to fund her nursing care until it runs out. But they can't touch that as an asset if a) A spouse is living there - not relevant in this case or b) A slightly ageing son or daughter very possibly of the age of the OP is resident, though the law may change on this in the future.

So long as the OP is living in her parent's house, the Council can't seize it and use it to fund her parent's care which, may I remind you, works out at £1.6K a week very often, and could go on given what I understand, til 2030 and beyond so not cheap. And you don't get what you ask for, it's a racket. And as a self-funder, you subsidise the Council-funded residents to the tune of hundreds of pounds a week.

You should be thinking about it for yourself now, not just your parents.

An accident or a stroke (as in my mum's case) can hit at any age. Having an LPA ready to go when it's needed, can and should be done at any age.

In my case, retiring made me focus on aging and putting my affairs in order. But I could equally and just as sensibly have done it at 21.

My kids are in their 30s and when they signed to be my attorneys when I was 62, they talked about setting up their own. I'm not sure if they did, but I hope that they do it by middle age at least.

We have just been through this with my MIL and it was an absolute nightmare. You need to have a bottomless bank account and the patience of Job.

Please try and get her to set one up and explain that she has complete control until either she relinquishes it or a doctor deems her to be in need of it. No one can simply 'take control'.

My 89 year old mother would not want to do one either... I suppose it's not wanting to face the fact that you might lose mental capacity at some point and to be honest I do "get" it.

It sounds as if your mother has all her "marbles". I would probably not put pressure on at the moment. If you think she is deteriorating, then you can broach the subject again (ie before she fully loses mental capacity). However fingers crossed she will be one of the lucky ones who is mentally fit right up til the day she dies.

People can be mentally fit but physically much less fit, and POA for finances means someone else can do the legwork.

Hi, OP -

I feel for you. DM is on the verge of making a poor financial decision as my DPs move into a retirement home with the likely need for private, expensive advanced care in my home country. (DM has a financial background and until recently has managed the DP finances very well. The last couple of years things gave gotten away from her but this will be her first bad decision if she persists)

The plan had always been to select the payment option that would give the DPs a cushion to pay for advanced care. For a cost, of course - but a comparatively easy and modest one that they can easily afford. (It is rather like buying health insurance when you’re all but diagnosed with a serious condition.) Now DM is suddenly worried about this.

The themes here about losing control, confronting illness and mortality, etc, make a good deal of sense. It also helped that we persuaded DM to sit down with her accountant who pointed out how affordable the sensible option is and how important it will be if advanced care is needed. For the first time in months DM is back to considering it.

This is a long way to say that perhaps a solicitor would get further with your DM than you can? Because they can show her, from a neutral perspective, why the POA is in her own interests. Good luck, I sympathise greatly

It may help if she understands that POA doesn't give automatic rights, only if it is verified that the person has lost capacity. My MiL has had one for years, but doesn't expect it to be activated yet, despite her advanced age, and neither do we.

Choosing to make poor financial decisions with their own money doesn't count.

I think I'd be tempted to leave her to it. Could' she have granted your sister one? If not, could you and your sister present a united front asking her to do one.

Is it possible the original solicitor kept a certified copy?

Same 🙈

DH has dementia. By the time we looked at a POA he was not mentally competent.enough for one to be set up without challenge. So we had to apply to the Court of Protection for a Guardianship order. Same sort of thing but roughly four times the price to do. My experience has been that banks and financial institutions will.not.deal with you unless the paperwork is in place. You would be surprised what happens to the vulnerable. My husband has given more than £20k in the last year to relatives who asked allegedly urgently needed for education or medical needs.

Thank you so much everyone for your advice. Both LPAs have been completed and sent off!! It was my explaining that a social worker would have control of her affairs if she lost capacity that made her reconsider. I hadn't fully understood that before this thread, so thank you.

A great outcome @PoAornevermind , and peace of mind all round

If you can sort it out please do. I've had to cope with a close relative without one and it was awful. I have one for my uncle and it's made everything so much easier.
Sorry everything is so hard.
Is there anyone else she would listen to?

It’s sorted @Applepencilplant 😃

You might like to tell her that if she lost capacity for any reason, or was unable to speak for herself, e.g. after a stroke, then in the absence of Powers of Attorney (both financial and Health and Welfare) it will mean total strangers from officialdom (Court of Protection) taking over her personal affairs, and getting that sorted will cost a lot more and take ages.

But if she’s happy with that, fine.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. My husband and I set them up when I found out the law was changing and they are filed away with our wills. We are still in our 60s. They won't (I hope) need to be registered for a long time yet. I doubt we are alone.

I truly sympathise. My mum is 95 and we have only just persuaded her to sign the forms.
'She knew best', 'she knew all about them', 'she wasn't losing control to anyone' and had stories of people taking advantage.
I just kept talking about them and emphasising that they only kick in when, if, the person loses their mental capacity. And how difficult things would be for me.
I got an old friend that she trusted to speak to her.
In the end I printed the papers from the Government website and told her my husband and I were doing ours and she finally agreed.
It is worth keeping talking about them and then do it second she agrees.
My mum loved the fuss and the power of saying no.
Remind her that she had done one in the past and now needs to do it again, properly, and register it.
You will probably need to get your sister involved too, as there's a section asking if there's anyone else who should be told about the LPA. Try and work with her, if at all possible.

It cost £76 per LPA. There's a help line and staff are very helpful if you need to ring them up. I found the notes very clear.
Make sure everything is signed on the same day or if that's not possible then in the correct order.
Good luck.
Honestly it is worth pursuing

Sorry hadn't seen you had finally persuaded her. Well done!

Thanks for this very interesting thread. Both my parents don’t have LPAs set up - is there a website that details what happens if they are incapacitated and don’t have an LPA? That the social workers get to decide, etc etc.

• if no one can pay the bills then children of elderly parents can’t arrange extra care ?

Lots of useful info here: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-a-power-of-attorney/#:~:text=If%20you%20lose%20mental%20capacity,appointed%20as%20your%20'deputy'.

Glad you got this sorted OP, my dad was a bit resistant and the point I kept making to him was that ideally it would be a safeguard that we would never ever use. He dragged his feet a bit, but agreed, we did the forms. A week later he went out with some golfing buddies, two of whom had horror stories which could have been averted with an LPA in place, and he rang me as soon as he got home saying: “You have sent off the forms haven’t you Arlanymor?! You need to do it ASAP!” Yes, Taddy, I sent them via registered post!