to suggest that every single parent with a child at private school apply for a state school place asap?

[sarjd]

let's see how that works.

And I've just checked the local private school... only 15 options, of which Music is one. But not German or RE either. The main addition being Latin and Classics.

Don’t let the stable door hit your fat, privileged arse on the way out now, will ya!?

Tory bot? There are a lot of threads on this subject already. So much fuss about such a small % of children, that may initially cause a bit of an issue if they all moved (not going to happen), but would be sorted out and the new engaged pupils and parents would probably enrich the state school. People are so worried that they won’t be able to afford to buy privilege for their children. A lot of people would like to see a more even playing field when it comes to education.

It wasn’t music lessons it was GSCE music

Both my dc are doing that it’s a very good subject at that stage for some dc

I think Options vary from school to school. We chose grammar schools and do not have many vocational options, for example. The bigger the school, the more options one would assume.
The trouble is that even if you have some choice nobody really knows at 10 what exact options your DC will want to pick in Year 8/9. Kids change.

What about families who can’t afford tuition? Is it fair that they can only access a school without a full range of subjects? Is it fair that some children can access excellent provision at no cost? Should a family only be able to pursue music if their parents have money? If people were really bothered about equality and helping poorer families, they’d be campaigning to do something about the inequality within the state system.

The VAT policy does absolutely nothing to address the inequality within the state sector. In fact, it’ll likely make it worse because private families moving will be going after state schools with excellent provision, pushing others out. Our nearest grammar catchment has already shrunk.

Government are not meeting targets for teacher training in a range of subjects, this will ultimately hit grammars and private schools as well as your comprehensive

But how things are or are not fair have nothing more than a passing relation to how things actually are. And how things should be and how things are regardless. Yes, it's not fair that some kids are too poor to have access to music tuition. That's not usually a barrier to how those parents with extra money will use it to support their children's interests and talents outside of the classroom.

“The problem is people paying for education - whether you like it or not, is a luxury as you don't have to pay, state education is available for all. “

@northernerinthesouth2000 - what is your definition of “education” and “paying”.

As a state school parent I have been “paying” to extend my DC educationally all my life. From baby books, to travels, to tech to support learning, to sports, chess clubs, music lessons etc etc.
Will my local music school now need to charge us VAT? What about my friend who is a musician and has set up the most amazing mini chamber groups and orchestras and music lessons? Will she also be having to charge VAT now?

We are good parents like most of the private school parents looking out to extend our DC who will happily pay a lot of tax in the future (if they stay in this country, because to be honest with you, they are no longer sure whether their privileged arses are welcome here anymore!)

This is true - DD displayed an interest in Classics - we had a long running thread on here about how to access latin resources and exams. The interest was fleeting.

Music A level does not require GCSE - it does require grading to a certain standard. Theory can be done online or intensive summer courses.

There's nothing fair about it. It's never been fair. This isn't new news.

Moving schools once in your education is not that big a deal. I did it several times as a child and while not ideal I wouldn't describe it as extremely stressful.

Well if that's really true they are wasting their money on something completely unnecessary I'm sure their kids would rather see their parents more and go on nice holidays while going to a regular school then going to private school with no holidays and parents working overtime and never seeing them.
Seriously some of y'all need to get a grip 93% of kids don't go to private school and they are doing fine.

I've never been a labour voter btw and don't like them but this is actually a really good policy and a great way to raise money.

I don't think ops idea would bother anyone btw only 7% of kids in private school and most of that 7% will probably still be able to afford it leaving maybe 1% which will be easily absorbed into normal schools. No one is going to be inconvenienced by this Mumsnet protest 😂

We don’t need to move because our children will be staying exactly where they are. Many families will be considering moving though. I’m not sure that helps the situation. If they move to access the better state provision, that pushes another child out. The answer is to make all state schools excellent so it’s no longer a postcode lottery. The fact that some children can access an excellent state school for free, where others have to settle to underperforming schools with dreadful conditions is a national disgrace. A decent education should not be about postcode, or whether your parents can afford tutors etc.

It won't affect many areas as catchment often doesn't take priority.

But as you say it won't affect you. You will stump up the extra. I suspect the vast majority of parents will. So I really think this is a storm in a teacup.

“The fact that some children can access an excellent state school for free, where others have to settle to underperforming schools with dreadful conditions is a national disgrace. A decent education should not be about postcode, or whether your parents can afford tutors etc.”

A lot of it is to do with public transport options and where you live and aspiration. If you happen to live in London, for example, even if you are poor there are good options if you are ambitious for your children. Aspiration is what matters in London. The grammars my DC went to are definitely not full of rich parents, they are mainly Asian lower middle class pushy parents and their kids end up doing incredibly well. There is however a certain amount of sneering amongst some people against this type of aspiration. When in actual fact it is exactly what this country now needs. European countries are on a massive decline due to lack of aspiration compared to Asian countries.

Basic education is free too all at point of access, like the NHS, if you then pay for more - that is a luxury (a luxury many don't have), so I don't see a problem in those who can afford to do this, paying more in taxes to support those who never in a month of Sundays could afford any additional extra let alone private school fees.

In my experience with music lessons their aren't enough schemes available for children who can't afford music lessons - so actually yes I wouldn't have a problem with paying VAT on my child's music lessons to support those child who can't afford music lessons.

This "we are good parents..." is slightly missing the point - state school parents are good parents and many of their children will most likely pay plenty of tax!!

"A lot of parents with children at private school work long hours, sometimes 2 jobs and go without holidays, run cheap cars, to be able to send their children to private school"

Statistically this is not true, mumsnet only keeps making these claims because it makes an appeal to how much more worthy these parents are than the plebs.

Many parents simply won’t have the money. Our prep has lots more going to state this year at Y7 than previously. Many have already decided to switch.

@Summerfreezemakesmedrinkwine but many people are seeing this policy as reducing inequality and improving state education, and it is doing neither.

All this talk about this policy and nothing has been said by any Party what they are going to do to improve education/other sectors that improve our children’s lives

@northernerinthesouth2000 if VAT is charged on music lessons how will that make them more accessible to low income families?

Haven't rtft yet but where are these empty schools? Our primary has a waiting list for every year group. And as soon as someone leaves they're replaced within a week. Plus the secondary we're looking at didn't even get past criteria 4 last year, out of 8.

@northernerinthesouth2000
“In my experience with music lessons their aren't enough schemes available for children who can't afford music lessons - so actually yes I wouldn't have a problem with paying VAT on my child's music lessons to support those child who can't afford music lessons.”

VAT won’t go to music schemes, it will go to a Central Government black hole. My local music schemes are charitable trusts where we give regularly to support children having lessons for free in state primary schools.

Whether you like it or not, there are plenty of state school parents against this VAT policy. At least those who do understand the nuances. I want autonomy and choice and this policy does not represent that. I will also fight for our church and grammar schools all the way, like the rest of the state school parents at our schools.

The money from the VAT could be used to give free music lessons to pupil premium pupils for starters.

Yes exactly. GE fodder over actual improvement to education. People aren’t discussing that part just how to make others pay

It’s depressing