to suggest that every single parent with a child at private school apply for a state school place asap?

[sarjd]

let's see how that works.

Do people realise that people who send their children to independent schools do have the same right to a place at state school and that by paying to educate their child elsewhere actually frees up money for the state school children ? Effectively they are paying twice so yes if they put this ridiculous plan in motion then they have to find room for all the children since labour have messed them up. Literally the stupidest both divisive policy I’ve ever come across.

And yet you come on here to say it.

I don't think the voluntary sector will miss the odd resentful martyr (and I say that as someone who has volunteered, willingly, my whole adult life)

The percentage of people with children currently in private school is pretty small. And certainly I don't know anyone at our children's school gates who is going to have to do anything more than a bit of gentle belt tightening to afford this. I expect their mortgage increases post Truss-gate were far more eye watering

"that by paying to educate their child elsewhere actually frees up money for the state school children ?"

Ugh, in order to be "freeing up money" you'd have to be contributing enough so that about 4 % of your tax take was the equivalent of spending on 1 school place ( as 4% is about what the government spends on schools) if its not then you are just paying into the mix anyway and what you do "contribute" to the schools budget is very small.

Oh and the school doesn't get extra cash because your child doesn't go there, it gets it allocate per head of the students ( in the most part there are some block grant funds).

But there’s only so much funding to go round so surely if child numbers increase it is potentially just going to reduce the funding per child

@ CelesteCunningham - Your post is incredibly disrespectful - children who have places in private schools have not cost the state anything to date as the parents have shouldered that cost ( in addition to paying NI and thereby contributing to paying for children in state schools). Lots of parents don’t fall into the rich category that seems to offend you, but have managed to pay for a place through hard work and sacrifice to try provide the best opportunity in their opinion for their children. Now the cost of that is being proposed to be hiked unfairly by a further 20%. Rather than sort out proper funding for schools and raising the overall standard of state schools first which would reduce the need/ demand for these private schools - Labour is going to screw those parents who can just afford it and force them back into a state school system which will then be further strained with the influx without addressing the issues of teacher shortage/ being underfunded, large classes, poor SEN provision etc etc - yes well done Labour- lets target those families - it would be interesting to see how many of them went to private schools and how many of their kids are going to them.

Pretty much what labour are contemplating anyway! So much division in this country with the politicians making it worse. In my city there are state schools that people would kill to get into and other state schools that people would kill to move their child out of. Don't really think removing charitable status and adding VAT to private schools is going to be the thing that sets the Heather on fire finanially in terms of getting the country back on an even keel but sure, why not - saves them having to close the actual tax loopholes that corporations can use to avoid paying the full whack of tax!

I doubt it. Most will be on fixed rate or mortgage free

VAT will affect all

Also such a staunch Labour supporter plus private school, don’t you think state fits those Labour values more?

Waaaaaaa!! More toys are thrown from pram. People continue to not care.

They choose not to tax the billionaires, they choose to bung vast amounts to their mates.

totally agree with this. Tories are disgusting.

Instead of taxing to death the people who work here, tax the bloody interest and dividends sucked out of the UK from UK businesses paid to the offshore billionaires living it up in tax havens.

This is how a certain Knight of the Empire used to operate before it all went pop: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/philip-green-bhs-tycoon-tax-parliamentary-inquiry

Our tax laws allow this to happen, and people complain that the UK workers and residents should pay more tax!?!?

a significant proportion of private schools are international students whose parents would just move them to boarding schools in other countries or just give 0 fucks as 20% increase is pocket change to them

“All the children”? You think every single child at private school is going to move to the state sector?

I’ll eat my hat if it’s more than about 5% of them in the end. In any case, plenty of state places available in my city. They won’t be in the schools the parents want, but since they deemed the good schools not good enough for their darlings too my heart doesn’t exactly bleed.

And private schools will be ripping you off if they pass on the full 20% since they’ll be able to reclaim VAT as well as charge it.

I can completely understand @Sunhatweather coming to the conclusion she’s given up hundreds of hours of her time for people who hate her. So doesn’t feel inclined to help out anymore. I think I’d feel the same, it sours things a bit.

This chart shows the % of families with kids in private school by income. The mega rich are to the right.

The vast majority of private school pupils are from very wealthy families.
Ending a tax break for them so we can improve the provision for less financially fortunate families seems fair.

That's what's happened in Wales. No grammar schools here.

Ask your school about paying fees in advance. Lots of private schools near me are planning to allow parents to pay in advance to avoid paying VAT at all. They’ve also said they’ll not be passing on VAT in full anyway by reducing the number of bursaries going forward (not affecting the children already at the school). There’s also some local community events they’ll be cancelling to recoup some costs.

@Sunhatweather it's been bothering me how mean I was to you in calling you 'awful' and I want to apologise. Just cos I don't agree with you & our viewpoints are different isn't good enough reason to potentially make you feel bad /stressed/whatever.

I've asked for the post to be removed & I am sorry for being so personal 🙏

This reflects my experience as a parent with children in private school.

I don't see many people struggling to keep the wolf from the door (save for on their exotic holidays I guess )

I think it's very easy to live in a private school bubble and lose sight of how privileged you really are

And this is the kind of divisive language they want. You assume private school parents think they are ‘too good’ for state school. There are hundreds of different reasons they have chosen that option so don’t assume you understand their reasons. I work in an independent school and the parents there work many extra hours and jobs to afford it. They are taxed on their earnings and they choose to spend it on education. Just like other people choose to spend their money on different things. They are entitled to choose what they spend their money on because they earnt it and didn’t just get a handout from the state! Add no they don’t all drive Tesla’s, eat avocado on toast and sit in front of their massive tvs. Many are too busy working….

@Silverstarfish1 "Lots of parents don’t fall into the rich category that seems to offend you, but have managed to pay for a place through hard work and sacrifice to try provide the best opportunity in their opinion for their children."

Most parents of private school children are in the top income decile for household earnings, they are rich. Sorry be blunt, but they are.

This bleating about "working hard and provide the best opportunity for their children" bollocks is what really annoys people. It implies that others don't work hard and don't do this, and that maybe if they tried just a little bit harder they would too have over 90k to spend on one child's secondary education.

The rest of your post is just nonsense.

Private school parents will in the vast majority of cases, just pay the tax, on average it works out to 58 quid a week.

BTW for those questioning the influence that private school parents could have if their children joined the state system? Just look at HOW MANY threads this topic has generated in AIBU alone even before the election was announced, with huge numbers of parents making huge efforts to convince us that this isn't a good idea.

I’m not being a martyr - I’m stating my position. I’m not doing it for effect.
There’s also no point of saying what I’ve managed to achieve in my time (with others) because then I’ll get flak for that too. So I won’t. No, my choir won’t be important to anyone on mumsnet, but it’s a loss for the school.
There will be other people (like another PP) who won’t be able to volunteer because they’re trimming costs and working more hours. No it won’t cause chaos, but it will have an effect.

You’re right, I do feel burnt out. After some of the ruder responses on this thread, I’m feeling justified in stepping back.

Quite, judging by this head most people think all state school children are stupid and violent. I expect most would rather scrimp a bit on their annual ski holiday than send their child to these lawless institutions

Genuinely as a private school parent I have never thought my children are more intelligent just because they go there. And although I like the small class sizes etc it doesn't mean private schools are trouble free zones. A child moved to my children's private school recently from another private school where they had experienced horrible bullying and where drug use was taking place during school hours

NW Kent

I think some are very wedded to Labour as pp is despite using private

Your reaction is understandable

so your answer is to make it even more elite? Your graph tells a story but it is not one that most of us have seen in practise but maybe we have different definitions of mega rich.

And remember the money raised will go into the general taxation pot. It cannot be ringfenced. I do not believe for a single second that that money will make its way into schools , it will go towards whatever is politically expedient at the time. If I genuinely thought this would improve things I would support it 100%. My children went to state primary and they did wonderful things with not much and the extra money would mean they might not have had 50 year old gym equipment and school trips to only places that were free . I just don’t think it will happen