Farage

[custardlover]

I have just been listening to his speech at Clacton today about DDay and patriotism and it's all hot air and bluster and nonsense and honestly WHO COULD POSSIBLY VOTE FOR THIS IGNORANT CLOWN?!?

OK but seriously anyone who is tempted, please tell me. I genuinely cannot understand it.

Typo in thread title edited by MNHQ to make it clear the thread is about Farage, not a garage

I am sincerely interested in the why. I don't expect that it would ever change my perspective no, but I genuinely seek to understand. I also grew up in an incredibly deprived part of the country and have a lot of empathy for the people of Clacton.

I haven't heard any reasons why on this thread yet.

He is a pathological liar and a buffoon. He is the main culprit we are where we are right now.
He would go down in British history as the biggest charlatan since the turn of millennium.

So am I.

What’s even the difference between the Tories and Reform in terms of policy/ideology anyway?

I know Reform talk bigger on curbing immigration but I imagine most people know that, with our low birth rates, the country would collapse without net positive migration. Even in a fantasy world where Reform got into power, I seriously doubt they’d meaningfully curb immigration- it’ll be the same thing as the Tories - rail against immigration when you’re not in power then accept the need for it once you’re in.

I think Farage’s long game is simply to become leader of the Tories.

Yes, I agree. I’d put her in a cell for the night, that’s for sure. I’d also come down hard on the little idiots who played “things can only get better” over Rishi Sunak’s speech. Makes no difference who the politician is, you don’t interfere in democracy. Years ago, the son of the guy in Roxy Music, who was/is a Tory, broke into Parliament and went up to the PM wagging his finger and complaining about the ban on fox hunting. My god, I’d have had him dragged out of there by his hair.

People must learn to set aside their political beliefs and fight to defend democracy and free speech. They are too fragile and precious. As someone famously (and beautifully) put it “I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

People must learn to set aside their political beliefs and fight to defend democracy and free speech.
That feels a little bit rich given your opposition to non-violent protest. I’ll condemn the milkshake assault all day long, but not someone playing a song.

People are p*ed off with politics because it is impossible to make changes due to successive govts giving away the demos power to international organisations such as UN, ECHR (and EU). Therefore people feel that democracy no longer works. Politicians since the banking crash have made peoples lives worse not better and the country has been in a decline. Politicians from boyh main parties lie constantly so no one trusts them. That is why both Labour and Tories need to be killed off and new parties take their place. Reforms popularity (and Brexit) are a symptoms of that.

In what ways do the UN (which, of course, the UK was instrumental in founding) prevent political change in the UK? Given that UN member states include liberal democracies, communist states, dictatorships and basically every other form of government/society going, this seems a really odd statement on its face…

I can understand the argument more in terms of the ECHR, as it does impact the UK’s laws, but even then its role is pretty narrow and usually not very controversial.

Also worth pointing out that the Tories have been in power since the financial crash and Reform are basically just Tories.

Can we just not? Why is anyone giving him any airtime?

God how do you feel about that? I honestly couldn't sleep in the same bed as someone that voted for a popularist.

LTB

😂it’s a rare event

@LadyWiddiothethird

throwing milkshake is abhorrent?! 😬 sending asylum seekers to Rwanda is abhorrent. Throwing milkshake, not so much.

He is a natural orator, whether or not you agree with his politics. Something neither Sunak or Starmer can claim to be. This is why he appeals.

@AmpleFatball it is irrelevant who has been in power since the financial crisis (tories and for a short time only labour) as George Galloway said they are two cheeks of the same a*. Politicians from both have more in common for each other than the public and are widely perceived as incompetent out of touch narcissist/liars. And yes they have given away our power not theirs to give. All these international bodies are working towards a one world govt and alot of people don't want that.

An awful lot of the electorate are sick and tired of labour and the Conservatives and Farage talks to the disaffected those looking to change the political landscape. And simply calling anybody who voices a concern over immigration, a racist, and as a controlling mechanism, no longer works. Brexit proved that.

You cannot stigmatise entire sections of the voting public because they don't share your politics anymore. And throwing milkshake over somebody means you've already lost the argument and you're having to resort to the juvenile.

Hahaha yes! This is the real thing we should all be focusing on. I'm on my way down there now.....

Ha ha
The milkshake machine is never working in my local McDonald’s.
Tbf , I wouldn’t waste my milkshake on Mr Farage.
He is actually quite pathetic.

Nor would I @Lampzade , but then since I also wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire it follows that I wouldn't waste actual waste on him either.

I could murder a milkshake now 😀

I can understand dissatisfaction with the two major parties but Reform are even more similar to the Tories than Labour are. There’s nothing revolutionary about them.

And the UK was integral in founding the UN and ECHR and we’re talking what, 70 years ago? Even if you thought it was wrong for the UK to found/join those organizations, there’s not a single politician in parliament who would have any blame.

How do you think leaving the UN or the ECHR would help people in the UK, anyway?

I’ll leave this here…an article about early signs of fascism as expressed during the Trump Presidency. Farage endorses Trump
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/31/the-12-early-warning-signs-of-fascism/

@AmpleFatball I'm just taking about the way people perceive that their concerns aren't acted on, uncontrolled immigration is a prime example, tories have constantly said they'll reduce it and now its many many times higher than its ever been. Alot of these things are decided internationally that is why there's also unrest in Europe, US and many other Western countries but not countries like Japan and Singapore (and some Eastern European countries) who seem to step aside from these things. Reform seem to be promising the opposite to what the tories have done in most areas so no idea why you think they're similar but they have the benefit of being more trusted as they haven't been proved to lie to their voters.

I don’t see how they’re promising the opposite of the Tories at all, they share extremely similar platforms and ideologies, except that Reform purports to be harder on immigration and don’t seem to believe in climate change.

That said , I’m sure if they go into power their immigration stance would soften. Until/unless we address the country’s birth rate being insufficient to sustain our society, we’re going to need net positive immigration.

Also, those other countries you reference as not experiencing unrest are all, of course, UN members. How do you square that with the UN being the problem?

Gosh @verdibird that is the most ridiculous article ever, when did political debate become so juvenile. If that so called journalist is trying to compare trumps America to hitlers Germany don't you think there are a few things different? The way leftists go on about fascists all the time reminds me of Rick from the young ones (if you're old enough to remember that) only he was supposed to be a immature student.

Yes @AmpleFatball no idea why you've fixated on the un just taking about international bodies/globalisation generally. There is an argument that we need some immigration although many countries with declining birthrates like Japan manage without it but no argument for net 800k pa of mostly low skilled people who are a net cost and while we have substantial housing shortages and 5 million on out of work benefits. Those people will also all get old and be entitled to a pension so unsustainable.