Who is wrong here?

[PyongyangKipperbang]

Person A. Random bad bout of motion sickness, not happened in this grown adult since childhood. Clearly very ill. Difficult journey so sickness ends up a full blown panic attack with intermittent heaving but contained with plastic bags and wet wipes, and Person A doesnt want to keep stoppinng to be sick every 5 to ten minutes. But speed is increasing the panic and keeps insisting that Person B slows down.

Person B is being very patient. Offers to stop, stops to try and buy remedies, opens windows etc. Does everything they can. They are driving will below the legal limit, so say 40 in a 60. This is slower than they would normally drive and they are making an effort to do slower braking and accelerating than they would normally do, but Person A is still asking them to slow down.

Person A says Person B should have slowed down further as it was a quiet road and maybe pulled in to let traffic pass if there was a queue.

Person B says that they were not driving fast and dont agree that they should have slowed down more on single lane roads.

The reason it was a difficult drive was that person A has a fear of heights and there was an unexpected (to A) climb up a very steep mountain road with high drops. Person B has driven this route many times, enjoys the drive and didnt think to mention the drops as didnt know that Person A was scared of heights.

Because I foolishly joked I could ask mumsnet after a conversation about it.

ETA their are two main routes to their destination. B only knew the high one as that was a route they had to take due to work so took that, but if you were to google it (I just did on maps) it brings up the lower one that is apparently quicker. So if it was me I would assume the lower route. B has since admitted that the lower route (which they took on their return) was an easier and faster journey. There are a lot of new bypasses in that area. I wouldnt know that Fort William had more hills than say....Snake Pass, which really is shit your pants scary as a PP said!

Tell me you have never had motion sickness without telling me you have neve rhad motion sickness!

Well you’re wrong. Boats are my thing - have to stand on deck, whatever the weather, and fix on the horizon point - and still sometime hurl 🤣

One of the worst experiences of my life was a 12yo doing Plymouth to Roscoff (it’s loooooong) with no idea what sea sickness even was before that ferry left port.

Tbf - I did make quite a big deal of that. But I was 12 🤣

So yeah - I think it’s perfectly possible for a grown adult to realise that an “abyss” is making them worse and either close their eyes or if that makes the sickness worse - don’t look down.

I think it would have been better to turn back and go home.

Because I foolishly joked I could ask mumsnet after a conversation about it.

But how are we to know whether B’a driving speed was reasonable for the road and conditions?

Person

Well you cant, anymore that if I had posted "My husband wouldnt slow down when I asked him to as I had travel sickness and was really scared of the bends in the road"

But it has been corroborated by both A and B (A had their eye strictly on the speedo to avoid looking down!) so I would say its one of the more balanced accounts.

As I said, I am neither A nor B and I wonder if a subconcious gendering of A and B has taken place. A is not a woman, not indeed a drama queen (or king, as it were)

Person B is a saint and A sounds like a pain in the arse.

It's clear you agree with A.

Why?

How has it been corroborated by B that they were driving too fast?

You said: Person B says that they were not driving fast and dont agree that they should have slowed down more on single lane roads.

You’ve just made A sound even worse!
So they weren’t even looking into the abyss (which you seemed to claim they were a minute ago!) but instead were staring directly at the Speedo the whole time?!!!!
Like that’s not going to be ridiculously irritating for B!

The obvious thing to do was just to get through the journey. Even if the speed made the sickness worse, the sickness wasn’t going away, and it at least would have had it over with faster.

A was annoying enough with the travel sickness, fear of heights, panic attacks, complaints about driver speed… but to be staring at and noting the speed… well, A is lucky not to have ended up in the abyss 🤣

I hadn’t consciously gendered them, but now you’ve made me think of it, I assumed they were both women.

Why are you so clearly defensive of A?

When did they stop to buy remedies? Before or after the mountain road and steep drops?

I would have stopped and waited for sickness and panic to pass. Driving so slowly not an option but am sympathetic to what A was going through however keeping driving was stupid

I often suffer from severe travel sickness and agree person A was being a complete drama llama 🤷🏻‍♀️ maybe if it happens more often to you it’s easier to get on with but a panic attack? Really?

I didnt, well I wasnt sure, but A is prepared to agree that they may have been wrong despite being really ill. But B isnt prepared to concede anything. As far as they are concerned, they were driving slower than normal so what was the problem? The fact that it wasnt slow enough for A to stop being ill isnt important.

So yes I guess I do as I think that if B would atleast say "Ok, I get it, lets work together for next time" then ok, but B is adamant that they are right and A is wrong. The description of B being patient, kind etc came from A.

I guess its a "you have have to be there/you have to know them" kind of things.

A has said that if they were driving it woul dhave been fine, not least because it wouldnt have been them looking down into an abyss but ahead on to a road.

But they weren’t looking down, they were staring at the speedo. And there was nothing stopping them looking straight ahead.

Where on earth did they stop for travel sickness tablets? Doesn’t sound like the kind of road with a Texaco handily placed! Didn’t they wait for those to kick in / turn the car around there? Afterall, the faster, lower alternative route is easily found on Google maps.

It sounds like you just want B to take equal responsibility to make the argument go away. But in my opinion, B has done nothing wrong, so why should they?

B is the driver and the driver has control.

Mountain roads are lethal for motion sickness because of the bends. You don’t get sick if you are driving so you should have switched drivers.

A sounds very annoying, they should have got in the back and laid down or shut their eyes if it was so bad with the heights. B did slow down already, they can't go much slower without messing up the traffic. I'm on B's side.

A difficult situation for both. I don't understand why people are saying A is annoying for having a fear of heights or (totally unexpected) motion sickness. He isn't choosing to have those things. Could someone who thinks that explain why?

As a travel sickness sufferer, I understand how retched A felt.
However, it’s not safe for B to drive so slowly and potentially have cars overtaking. A should have allowed B to stop and they could have had an hours break somewhere to settle A, before setting off again.

A sounds distressed, but a little unreasonable (though feeling that unwell is awful and may explain why they acted so out of character)

I'm a travel sickness sufferer and I think A was being quite unreasonable!!

B was already driving under the speed limit significantly. It can't be both a single lane winding hilly road, but also wide enough to pull over to let traffic pass surely? B as the driver is responsible for the driving, if A was unwell to the point of having a panic attack but not wanting to stop ever 5/10 mins (in a situation that sounds dangerous to stop!) they should have let B drive and just concentrated on what they could control eg their breathing.

Person A doesn't get to decide they don't want to stop to be sick but then also overly control person Bs driving. It's stressful enough driving sometimes without someone next to you being sick + telling you off for your driving - person A shouldn't be distracting the driver if they're insisting they continue to drive.

If person B opened windows, slowed down driving, carefully accelerated/braked and offered to stop for A to be ill / get remedies then I think B did everything they could without being dangerous.

You are A and dh B?

Stop
Let a recover and rest and calm down
Try again later

Good idea

I'd say B was in the wrong. If driving slower would of caused A to be less ill and scared and it was possible to drive slower without causing a problem to other road users I don't see why B wouldn't.

So, it was me who described Snake Pass as scary. I drive it 3 or 4 times a year and do so at 30mph with white knuckles. My friend drives it several times a week and does so at 50mph. I don't think it's unsafe to do so, just I as a less confident driver on that road feel less safe.

If it was a similar road, I still don't think B did anything wrong. The fact that A was anxious doesn't make B's driving any less safe and there is a valid argument that its better to get the anxiety-provoking situation over quicker rather than slower.

It also wouldn't occur to me to warn anyone about Snake Pass if they were a passenger in my car - if they had any particular stipulations about the journey I would expect them to raise that with me.

I do feel for A but ultimately B was responsible for making the driving decisions and if A wasn't happy with that they shouldn't have got in B's car.

I'd also add that someone having a panic attack is not best placed to make safe driving/stopping decisions and as a driver I would ignore instructions from a passenger having a panic attack in what is already a difficult driving situation.

@Luio you’d swap driving with someone who wasn’t fully insured and who was feeling so sick they couldn’t power through it, was scared, and even had a panic attack, and was fixating on your speedo? Who was in enough of a state when OP saw them later that even OP says that wasn’t an option? 🤪

I wouldn’t!