Orange marches belfast

[Pippin24]

I’m visiting Belfast today to see extended family. My dad’s family are from Ireland/n Ireland I try to get over a few times per year. I’m in my aunts house and we had planned a picnic in the garden which has steadily been interrupted by orange bands marching up a down a road not far from her. It’s a terrible noise and apart from the assault to the ears seems entirely pointless- I cannot believe in this day and age this is still happening.

it’s a mixed area faith wise and my aunt is so embarrassed about it. My husband has just arrived back from a walk where he managed to see some of the march and has informed me that there are a shit ton of the marchers drinking - singing anti catholic/Irish songs and generally behaving badly. Surely there are rules around this? Grown men with younger kids marching drunk and causing a disturbance. Culture is one thing - this isn’t it. Rant over!

Shtaaap! I spat out my tea. 😂

100%.

@DotDashDot24

Its really embarrassing how bigoted and poorly educated the English are about alll communities in Ireland. The stereotypes, the half truths and assumptions. English people taking cartoonish and two dimensional positions about what they think the politics of Ireland is about.

It’s the legacy of colonialism and people falling to look directly at what happened and ask themselves the difficult questions. And poor and biased education.

Maybe it isn’t surprising but it’s high time people educated themselves on this. Hearing English people talk about Ireland makes me cringe, and I’m English.

So we all have to live in a prehistoric era just to suit these dinosaurs? At least the marches need to be cut down. The disruption they cause is unbelievable. Absolutely wouldn't mind if it was just on the 12 th July , but having it go on for months at a time every year is too much.
Although I think eventually it will die a death as the younger generation isn't hate fuelled like the current one and past ones.

The marches have been cut down and they're heavily regulated and (where necessary) policed.

I'm from Dublin, so feel very uncomfortable around them when I encounter one, but I'm not sure what more could realistically be done without causing more trouble.

It's not banter, it's racist

@Evanna13

I know, that’s why I put it in quotes.

Yeah I'm the kind of Irish those "jokes" refer to, and I love a bit of banter as most Irish do IME. But "Paddy", famine jokes, potato jokes and the like are just racist and I wouldn't be shy in calling it out if I met it in the workplace.

Near me, it could be seen as goading/contentious to wear something like that during an Orange parade. I avoid them like the plague, go out early if I need shopping etc or the day before…

@CelesteCunningham

Paddy", famine jokes, potato jokes and the like are just racist and I wouldn't be shy in calling it out if I met it in the workplace.

I completely agree and I am always pointing out to my partner how unacceptable it is (not to mention ethnically and historically inaccurate) when his friends make jokes like this and saying they should educate themselves.

But for whatever reason he doesn’t want to confront it (I think on the grounfs that they are otherwise good and kind people), and it’s not up to me to tell him how to manage this.

Ridiculous post. Most Irish I know are incredibly proud of the diaspora.
Despise the diaspora and laughing at them because they had to leave?????
Why would you say this? It's bizarre and absoutley not the case.
I know some people think it's humorous that 3rd generation Irish Americans etc call themselves Irish but there is no way they despise them!! I imagine that attitude is more common with people who have no understanding of Irish history and emigration.

It is up to you to call it out. They cannot be good and kind people making jokes about the Irish famine.

This.

I'm 67 and worked in Belfast from the age of 16.

Many many bombs went off, every day sometimes. A furniture shop 100 yards away had a baby blown from his pram. I was made to lie on the ground while three IRA men pointed guns at myself and my colleagues, planted a bomb and told us we had 10 minutes to get out. Other colleagues were working in the top of the building, no mobile phones, switchboard off; we had to throw stones up to break their windows to tell them to get out or they'd have been killed.

I tell this story for a reason.

we had the GFA and my four children dont live like that, Belfast is an amazing place, more diverse and i work in a nursing home with folk from all over the world, and encompasses a LOT of religions

But the troubles are recent, it takes time for people to move on, this isn't Disneyland for tourists but a community moving slowly forward.

FWIW I agree that the marches should be phased out, however its very very niave to think that just cutting them out is the way forward. We actually live here, and for me the progression so far is fantastic, maybe moving too slowly but from what I lived through its fucking fantastic, and I can live with that.

They should be cut to July only at the very least. Paddy's Day is one day and as already stated, is inclusive to all. Having them go on from March - July is ridiculous and infuriating to those caught up in the disruption.

@Evanna13 . Must be very annoying for your partner to be the butt of paddy jokes. However the potato blight, 1845 - 51 was not confined to any one part of Ireland. It did not respect political borders which had yet to exist.

Sorry my reply was meant for @Thepeopleversuswork . Apologies!

@Evanna13

I do call it out when it’s blatant. But again it’s not my place as an English person who doesn’t have skin in the game and doesn’t have the history with this friendship group to be the one to decide how he manages these relationships. I just usually speak to him when they aren’t there. But it’s frustrating how passive he sometimes is about it.

For those who don’t see the negative attitudes towards the diaspora and particularly their children, I refer you to the commonly used term “plastic paddies” which I’ve heard all over Ireland to refer to these people. These are the same kids who have returned year on year to spend school holidays with granny and grandad and might have two Irish parents, yet are “the English” (despite not having a UK passport in many cases). The same when they support Ireland at Twickenham. Oh the “banter”.

I agree wholeheartedly about the education part. I believe colonialism is taught in UK curriculum now which is helpful. There’s so much damage to unpick and there are many countries to discuss.

You know what people asay about people making assumptions re others
HTH

Although founded in Ulster, many Protestants migrated to Scotland and formed lodges in support of the Irish orangemen who wanted to support the British monarchy. Also, Ulster was largely populated by migrants from Britain, mainly Protestants from Scotland and the north of England. So the migration of Protestants to and from Ulster gives it the “brotherhood” of the orangemen.

Has the OP said she is English? Plus I agree that we are moving slowly forward and we are t Disneyland but really visitors here don’t know that to a great extent. They see what’s in front of them. I want people to be honest about their experiences here good or bad.

to previous posters who comment that OP family must not live in a very mixed area - as I’ve said before there are mixed areas where people are asked to contribute to “cultural” events which is just bigotry with a mask on. Dunmurry is mixed and I know for a fact it happens there- same with warren point. Same with parts of Armagh.

the OP had disappeared now - can’t blame her- but I for one appreciate her unvarnished opinion. She might not have gotten every right but she is articulating what a lot of visitors think. I worked in a city centre bar for a while. Whilst tourists love the black taxi/mural tours they view it like a museum piece - what they don’t want is to witness sectarianism. from either side.

I wouldn’t want to go to Germany and watch a facist rally. I think we need to move on from divisive traditions. We can acknowledge our past and culture without encouraging racism and bigotry.

Yes, I have heard the term plastic paddies and it's not ideal. However it is deemed a bit of banter and many 1st/2nd/3rd generation would use the term themselves.
I would completely disagree with you that the Irish despise their diaspora. And that they ridicule them because they had to emigrate...

Goodwins Law always raises its head in any serious discussion, it's the law don't you know🤔

Sorry op, but I don't believe that your husband accurately reported what he saw. There's absolutely no way that bandmen were drinking alcohol while marching, that absolutely doesn't happen. The audience will have been the ones drinking. In my town, the lodges come round and clear up any litter after, I believe most do that. It's also highly unusual that they just kept marching up and down past your aunt's house for ages - I've never heard of that.....

I absolutely detest orange bands. Hate them. But there's not much point in spreading inaccuracies, there's enough negative stuff to say about them without making more up!

However when I visit a new town / country, I don't tend to sit for hours bitching about what goes on there. If I choose to go somewhere, I make the best of it and accept it will be different to my hometown.

You display shocking arrogance thinking you know better and none of us have ever thought for ourselves that it would be wonderful to do away with this shite. Of course we think it, but we've enough understanding to know it wouldn't be worth the consequences. Also it would just happen anyway, there aren't enough police in the country to stop it. Much like in London I hated seeing so much drug dealing happening right in front of me - I didn't post on MN saying 'gosh I feel that should be banned as I didn't like it'. I've the wit to understand the police can only do so much.

Completely agree!!!! It's absolutely ridiculous!!!!