Orange marches belfast

[Pippin24]

I’m visiting Belfast today to see extended family. My dad’s family are from Ireland/n Ireland I try to get over a few times per year. I’m in my aunts house and we had planned a picnic in the garden which has steadily been interrupted by orange bands marching up a down a road not far from her. It’s a terrible noise and apart from the assault to the ears seems entirely pointless- I cannot believe in this day and age this is still happening.

it’s a mixed area faith wise and my aunt is so embarrassed about it. My husband has just arrived back from a walk where he managed to see some of the march and has informed me that there are a shit ton of the marchers drinking - singing anti catholic/Irish songs and generally behaving badly. Surely there are rules around this? Grown men with younger kids marching drunk and causing a disturbance. Culture is one thing - this isn’t it. Rant over!

in a NI that is supposed to be beyond all that.

What a ridiculously naive and unrealistic statement. In fact naivety is probably being too kind.

Indeed, supposed to be beyond all that?

I'm actually logging off for a while as I'm a very middle of the road poster where this is all concerned, three out of four of my children are married, Catholic/Protestant marriages and loved dearly.

Some of the statements I've been reading on here is staggering.

I mean beyond all that? Do some people expect this country to be Shangri-la after killing each other for years?

It would be funny if it wasn't so idiotically niave (at best!).

I've been in London and seen Regent Street absolutely covered in Union jacks. It's hard to escape the stars and stripes in the US.

If thoroughly British or American places feel the need to plaster their flags everywhere, why wouldn't people in a country where their very nationality is contested?

I don't like it, and frankly it's changed how I feel about flags and the like in general, but I understand it.

When I was lecturing at an English university in Irish literature between 2012 and 2019, my students dudnt know what the troubles were, and their associations with NI were Game of Thrones.

Thank you, Boatonalake and CelesteCunningham for correcting the would-be corrector. Not your drama to get tangled up in but appreciated. As someone said, say no more.

I've already posted re the apparent lack of inclusion of reference to NI and Ireland in English schools' history ... And had varied responses from posters who attended English schools.

Anyway, your post makes it seem that they are aware of NI as a country, and that it is not the same as Ireland. The poster I responded to suggested that most of the world knows no difference between Ireland/Irish and Northern Ireland (and whatever people choose to identify themselves as in NI) and are apparently unaware it exists. (Therefore they don't know why there would be any British flags etc.).

my students dudnt know what the troubles were, and their associations with NI were Game of Thrones.

Young people are not exactly renowned for their knowledge of subjects outside their interest and experience (unless it's a pet subject for them). More so than ever, now that they have such a vast choice of entertainment at their fingertips online.

Exactly - traditions do not deserve to survive. Just rabble rousing and hatred, provocation. Sick.

Just rabble rousing

Yeah, the Orangemen commemorating the Battle of the Boyne on the 12th do such a great job of rabble rousing that everyone eats sandwiches in marquees while the kids go on the bouncy castles afterward. A real.crazed mob frothing at the mouth.

You're right @fungipie

Sick

When I was lecturing at an English university in Irish literature between 2012 and 2019

@Divilabit Were you lecturing at the university between 2012 and 2019, or were you lecturing on Irish literature written between 2012 and 2019?

I live here. I was escorting US visitors. In the US and NI Tourist Board it is promoted heavily. Bit of a shock then to come across this blatant sectarianism even for me who is very much aware of the issues. There is no place in modern society for these outmoded practices like Orange Order parades , bonfires or flag waving . Or Republican murals .They are inflammatory and to pretend otherwise is being disingenuous.

Flags are not blatant sectarianism. Would you walk around central London getting offended by the union jacks everywhere? I think not. I come from an extremely mixed background and area - I don’t have an issue with people celebrating their identity, whether that be nationalist or unionist. Why is it such a problem for you?

This thread was about Orange parades which in my opinion should not be allowed to continue. Nor bonfires . Nor kerbside paintings. Flags are very much making a point of establishing a territory and making it unwelcoming for people who don't identify with that segment .

Personally I dislike them Unionist or Republican. If NI is to move forward these practices have to be discontinued.

The very fact that some posters feel that they are merely celebrating or just decorations shows the mindset unable to see how it is perceived by outsiders .
I know it a very complex issue and people have extremely strong opinions . But not acknowledging that others do not agree with your viewpoint and perceive things differently speaks to the intrangence of both sides to compromise.

The aftermath we saw in a nearby town with a very well attended march last year was mainly people wandering the streets drunk with beers in hand, staggering into the road and yelling. DP (not from here) had no prior knowledge of the Orange walk and was quite taken aback, he now avoids any areas they're marching in like the plague on the day! Personally, I don't feel especially safe in the vicinity of them and so keep my distance too.
We all have our opinions of them, but I wouldn't call all Orange walks a family friendly event, I've seen and heard of too many people being hurt and verbally abused during them. Perhaps some aren't like that, I can only speak from personal experience.
I think flags can be used to make a point, but they don't bother me.

Ah come on. Nobody has any issues with sandwiches, marquees or bouncy castles.

There's more to it. You know there is.

I cannot believe you are that naive. Yes, I am sure you know why.

Not naive in the slightest, just open minded and don’t have an issue with people flying the flag that they identify with. They have every right to do so in a divided country. Flags in themselves are not sectarian - intimidating murals, posters, graffiti and bonfires burning offensive symbols are a very different story.

m.sundayworld.com/news/world-news/liverpool-fc-probes-complaint-over-loyalist-flute-band-playing-sectarian-anthem-at-anfield/a1588509338.html

What about this then 🤷‍♀️