Orange marches belfast

[Pippin24]

I’m visiting Belfast today to see extended family. My dad’s family are from Ireland/n Ireland I try to get over a few times per year. I’m in my aunts house and we had planned a picnic in the garden which has steadily been interrupted by orange bands marching up a down a road not far from her. It’s a terrible noise and apart from the assault to the ears seems entirely pointless- I cannot believe in this day and age this is still happening.

it’s a mixed area faith wise and my aunt is so embarrassed about it. My husband has just arrived back from a walk where he managed to see some of the march and has informed me that there are a shit ton of the marchers drinking - singing anti catholic/Irish songs and generally behaving badly. Surely there are rules around this? Grown men with younger kids marching drunk and causing a disturbance. Culture is one thing - this isn’t it. Rant over!

Pride isn't what it used to be

Too bloody right they will

An Orange man near me ,who Ive got to know well since Ive lived here, his wife and children were held hostage and he was forced to drive a 500lb bomb to a police station which dentonated

Is he bitter? Nope, hes a friend of mine ( Im Catholic ) and he turns up to any funeral, church or chapel, where he knows the person or has business with them or the family. Most of the fellas he drinks with are catholic , yet come the 12th, he will don his suit and sash and march

My DH's father was an Orange man, did he tell his son never to darken his door bringing a catholic into the home to shame him? Did he hell, I was welcomed

Same as my husbands children, both gone on to marry Catholics

Northern Ireland is complex, Its not black and white. I felt I knew it all as an English woman born from Irish parents , but living here in Northern Ireland , my views have and still are changing

As for the Op's assertion that her family live in a mixed community - thats so far from the truth. No one who is identifying as an opposing ( for want of a better word ) is going to live in an area where the kerb stones are painted or the "wrong" flags are flown

Luckily those areas are becoming less and less, even in the 20 years Ive lived here Ive seen the decline

As for the parades, yep they are a PITA. I live in the Bible belt and we are having them 2 or 3 times a week so it seems atm. Singing? Nope never heard singing, lots of flutes , if we are lucky some pipe bands, but never singing

And yes when our town is hosting, Im spectating. Its a good day out, the roads are fully lined, cars are parked up the night before to bag the space. Yes after the parade there is a huge amount of drinking and yes some "boys" cant handle their drink and there is antisocial behaviour and Im sure in some hot spots it does kick off, Im not denying it doesnt happen. But for the most part these parades are held peacefully and respectfully

Republican marches are just as contentious , theres those who dont want them either

im a visitor here - as is my DH - he saw blatant sectarianism whilst out for a walk. That’s the impression visitors are getting

TBH, I think that is very far from the mark

I live here and work in hospitality and I have never known a visitor to mention any blatant sectarianism but again, I assert that your family dont quite live in such a mixed area as you would like to lead us all to believe, and those areas are not areas where the bog standard tourist to our country are going to be hanging out

Suki1964 you can't speak for every town in NI so stop dismissing OP's claims as untrue
I for one live here and know of a seaside town near me which is literally 50/50 but there are red white & blue pavements aswell as flags to show dominance. Not only that but paramilitary flags also fly. It's not exactly welcoming to tourists.

I can well believe that we have more of these marches/ parades in Glasgow than there are in Belfast!
Yesterday my area hosted a huge Apprentice Boys of Derry get-together - 48 marching bands from all over Scotland - thousands of people taking part, and a fair few spectators.

I don't get why they feel the need to start so early in the morning. 8.30am feels very anti-social on a weekend.

Didn’t they paint the kerbstones red, blue and white?

When I lived near Falkirk we were woken up by one, thinking “what the fuck is that noise?”, it’s only when I looked out and saw folks walking past the house in Rangers tops drinking buckfast I connected the dots. This was 8:30 or so on a Saturday morning.

I very pointedly wore my Hibernian top that day - Edinburgh based football club with Irish roots who’s name literally means “Irish” for those who don’t know.

I have literally zero care for any religion and I’m an atheist but these marches are so antiquated it’s ridiculous they still happen.

Scotland still has a problem with sectarianism and it’s so interlinked with the two biggest football teams that it’s almost impossible to stamp it out.

@DotDashDot24 i agree, I don’t think a lot of people “get it”. I’m from the west of Scotland and have visited n Ireland on umpteen occasions, lots of n Irish friends and experience orange marches and the whole rangers/celtic thing here too but even I don’t fully get it. I do hope n Ireland keeps moving forward though as nobody wants to go back to the 70s and 80s.

So you put on a hibs top when you saw a rangers top? You are just as bad!!

This also explains why “hun”, short for “honey” is not really used as a term of affection in the w of Scotland and n Ireland

Why?

Why is wearing a football top just as bad as people marching in the name
of oppression of a particular religion?

Op your posts and views are very cringe worthy. You're putting across your points in an incredibly insensitive, one dimensional and insulting way, and frankly, demonstrating why people who don't understand other cultures should think before they speak and be cautious before spewing opinions.

So, heres the simplistic response to your puerile question:

Northern Ireland is enjoying peace after a bloody war which cost thousands of lives. No one in their right mind wants to jeopardise that.

I wonder if that’s the same seaside town on the nw coast, that I was threatened at 6 months pregnant because I’m english?

Superlambaanana you are talking tripe. All these parades do is cause hate & disruption. The OP is completely correct.

No definitely not, south east. They would worship you in this town. 😆

It's not exactly welcoming to tourists.

The rougher and more extreme elements of both the unionist and nationalist "sides" here don't give a flying fuck about tourism. It's not remotely their priority.

Not realising that is one of the reasons op seems so naive here.

It's also such a joke to say to NI people who aren't like that "it makes your country look bad", like they can do something about it, the people who were held hostage by terrorism in their own country for decades and couldn't do anything about it.

The naivety and arrogance is striking.

I have to say I often find English people of Irish and Northern Irish extraction to be particularly zealous, simplistic and opinionated on this.

I know a few English people of Irish extraction who've also moved here in recent years, they espouse similar views and one got a council house swap because she didn't like the practice parades near her house, among other things. She's also demanded changes re. the primary school she sent her kids too, in a unionist council estate.

One thing I know about her and I'd wager about other people like her is that she would never have moved here or spent any time here during the Troubles.

So she didn't grow up here, wouldn't have spent any time here during the Troubles ...but now has moved here and regularly complains about the "culture", and demands changes to make it more like England....and not like Northern Ireland.

The English (later GB and UK) monarchy and government dictated the history here over hundreds of years, but so many English people want the legacy of that to somehow not exist.

I don’t think the OP should be criticised. She expressed her views and there’s been a good discussion about tribalism in both NI and Scotland afterwards.
For those who visit NI it can be a shock when seen first hand and that’s what’s she is expressing here.
But as a previous poster said, the people of NI should be proud of what has been achieved in 25 years. For sure there’s more ground to go but so much has been achieved.

I'm not a fan of anyone who visits, sees something that reminds them that the past isn't entirely in the past and posts "Ew, that's distasteful to me, it should, like, totally be banned". Like NI should sweep its recent history under the sofa so the visitors don't have to contemplate it. It's an overly simplistic view of a post conflict society.

There is also, in my experience, a lack of knowledge of the history of Ireland and NI. I got the impression it's not touched on at school (?)

This is definitely correct. I am English but my partner is from NI. The level of ignorance his friends (who are good and intelligent people by and large) make about him is staggering and actually makes me angry.

He’s a Northern Irish Protestant and therefore his family would have identified as British (though he has lived here a long time and doesn’t care). But his friends will call him “Paddy” and make references which are obviously about people from the Republic (potato famine jokes etc). It’s not meant to be bullying or unkind it’s “banter” (I know I know) but the lack of knowledge demonstrated about the history of Ireland and the role played by the English in it is actually embarrassing to me.

I was taught almost nothing about the history or Ireland at school (it may have changed since I left, the Troubles were still going on when I was at school). I learned about it a bit at university as part of my degree and I have since read up on it but as an English person you have to educate yourself on it. The lack of awareness is a real problem.

But that individual just sounds like an ignorant arse @DotDashDot24 rather than representing the entire people or Irish/NI extraction! Ignorant people exist everywhere.

I heard an interesting podcast about the Irish “tribes” around the world and the point being that a 1st generation Irish person from North London will have had a different upbringing to a 1st gen Irish person from New York or even UK Birmingham, and I believe that too.

We are also the only country that seems to ridicule and despise the diaspora and especially their children. We exported our young for decades even through the 1900s and it’s continuing today with the flight to Australia. There are many types of Irish diaspora with different experiences. Instead of embracing the part our Irish blood played in their success, we laugh at them and their descendents for having to leave. It’s extraordinary.

When I lived in England;

I had people assume I was an Irish nationalist, and anti "British"
I had people say "(my name), that's not a very Irish name!!",
I had people refer to Irish travellers and then "sorry, no offence" to myself and another NI - ish colleague,
I had people explain GCSEs and A Levels to me,
I had people say "I don't know what the law in Ireland is like but here ....".
I had a manager say "typical stroppy Irish" to me, when he misunderstood something (totally neutral) I'd said.
I have absolutely no idea what he thought I said, he seemed to have massive difficulty understanding my (mild for NI) accent and referred to that "that funny accent of yours, it's a bit like a Scottish accent".

Some of these people are supposedly highly educated professionals.

I agree that almost all English people, and pretty much all Americans for that matter, instantly believe that you are "Irish" and Irish nationalist. Ulster Scots, Northern Irish/Irish Protestants, Unionists .... Don't exist in their minds. They neither know nor care about Irish/Northern Irish history, but feel entitled to mouth off about the culture here.

It's a missed opportunity to present to showcase the Protestant tradition in Ireland I think. Why can't it just be a fun day out for everyone?

There is actually an Orange parade in the Republic - in County Donegal. All very peaceful , followed by a picnic on the beach. So it can be done. A lot of people from both communities go on hols to avoid the 12th July.

was taught almost nothing about the history or Ireland at school (it may have changed since I left, the Troubles were still going on when I was at school).

That confirms my strong suspicions lol.

Op made a comment to the effect of 'why don't they ban these marches?'.

Banning Orange Order marches would undoubtedly spark an immediate return to violence and death in Northern Ireland.

Not sure who she thinks the 'they' are who would do the banning - politicians I suppose she might mean. How exactly would she propose to approach cross party support on that one? I doubt she has a clue but suggests it with an 'it's so obvious and easy, why hasn't someone done this' air.

So, as I said, shocking level of naivety and crassness.

What a bizarre post. Who is ‘ridiculing and despising’ the Irish diaspora? Who thinks emigration is funny? Why would their ‘Irish blood’ have anything to do with the success’ of emigrants?