Mixed feelings towards friend - admiration/jealousy/frustration. AIBU to ask for advice?

[Acapulco12]

I went on holiday with a few friends a few weeks ago. We’ve known each other for a couple of years now and see each other every couple of months, and I liked them all beforehand, but the holiday showed me a different side to one of them in particular.

During and after the holiday, I realised I have quite mixed feelings and emotions about this friend. I really admire her, but don’t really like her as a person (and I don’t think she likes me much either). I just feel quite sad as well, because I doubt we’ll stay in touch, but I’m equally quite relieved that I probably won’t have to socialise much with her.

To give some background, my friend moved to the U.K. (where all 3 of us live) from Portugal around 10 years ago, basically with nothing.

She’d gone to uni in Portugal and decided to move to the U.K. for better job prospects. When she moved to the U.K., she started work in a coffee shop and then applied for jobs in government, which has led her to now have quite a prestigious job. I was so impressed by this, and yes quite jealous/envious.

Although she’s still quite junior in her role, her job is very prestigious and - more importantly - I’m sure she’ll learn a lot from it. She’s now fully settled in the U.K., with British citizenship, and has just bought a place with her partner.

Her life is quite hard in lots of ways e.g. her partner can be quite controlling and at times has been physically threatening towards her, her job is very stressful and demanding and she also has a long-term (minor) health condition.

Despite all of this, she’s continued to persevere and is doing very well. She is incredibly tough and resilient, and obviously a very hard worker. She’s also very intelligent, as she’s able to work out very quickly how to navigate situations (in work and life) and to understand what’s required of her (e.g. in stressful situations at work).

However, she is also quite impatient and direct, and can be quite self-absorbed (she barely asks anyone questions when with them and will very often just talk about herself and problems in her life).

I guess I’m asking how I can be more resilient and tough, like her? I’m proud of what I’ve achieved so far in life and I feel like I’m fairly resilient.

However, I’ve definitely had fewer challenges in life than she has (I didn’t have to move countries or learn a new language to have better economic prospects, for instance).

I think I feel ‘less than’ in comparison to her.I guess I feel a bit guilty that I haven’t needed to navigate as many challenges in my life. It’s a weird feeling, especially considering I don’t really know her that well - I know a lot more about her than she does about me, as she’s not really expressed any interest in my life at all.

Is there anything I can do to help with this feeling?

I think you need to look more at why you feel the need to compete and compare with others, rather than be satisfied and content with yourself.

Thanks, that’s helpful and a good idea. I never have this feeling of competition and comparison with anyone else - it’s only when I was with her on this holiday. I think that’s why I find it so strange. I think, when I spent time with her on holiday, she made me feel insecure and unhappy because she would barely acknowledge me and never ask me about myself, and I managed that feeling by wanting to be more like her. Does that make sense?

Sounds like she triggered a feeling of insecurity in you by acting more important than you (by taking no interest in you). I think you're being self- critical in thinking you need to be tougher. Some people are resilient and tough by nature and can thrive despite adversity. Others are more sensitive and have different good qualities. It's biological (look up the orchid/dandelion hypothesis)

Yes, I think you hit the jail on the head @Newnamesameoldlurker - that really resonates. I’ll look up that theory, thanks.

Being ruthless, direct and self focused are often the qualities that make someone likely to succeed at something, as they are less emotionally invested in something and determined. Her background suggests she has had a lot of challenges so it is not surprising this may be some defence mechanism or driver for her

for instance perhaps a holiday for her is about her experience of travel and relaxation and she isn’t really thinking how you are, about making a human connection and getting to know you. That just means you are completely different people and different things drive you individually. If human connections mean a lot to you, she isn’t the right person to have as a friend as she can’t give you what you need. She may just want travel companions, not deep meaningful friendships. It’s ok for you to want more from a friendship too

Thanks for this - I completely agree.

Her health issues suggest that she isn’t coping as well as you think. If she doesn’t start practicing some self care and cut down on stress I suspect those health issues will go from minor to major.

Whilst she sounds strong and resilient and successful, she clearly isn’t as kind and compassionate as you- they are much better traits! I can’t stand being in the company of self absorbed people!
I do compare myself to people alot but her life doesn’t sound that great given how her partner behaves!
You don’t have to go through a trauma or hard life to be strong, every day life can be tricky! Cut yourself some slack x

You need to tell yourself and remember, that this woman's story has nothing to do with your life. Her achievements, challenges and resilience are entirely irrelevant to your own and don't enhance or negate them. If there are elements of her character or behaviour you admire, you can take them as a role model if you feel they might inspire you. If there are aspects of her behaviour that annoy you and these outweigh her good points then don't continue a relationship with her. Above all, get her into perspective. If you want to develop some of your own character traits, focus on that.

Do you actually want to be friends with this person? What is it about her that you like, or makes you want to be friends with her?

Yes that’s a good point - thanks. I feel like she takes fairly good care of herself, as she has good boundaries and is quite assertive about sticking to those. I do understand though that working in a stressful job, especially whilst having health issues, is not sustainable.

Thank you! ❤️ That is very sweet of you to say and it means a lot. Generally I have very kind and tolerant people around me - family, friends, colleagues included. Given that, it was a bit of a shock to spend a week with her and the other two women, who were all much more direct and less supportive than what I’m used to.

I’m not at all saying that they owe it to me to behave in a particularly tolerant way, especially as they probably just wanted to enjoy being on holiday and to switch off and please themselves, which is of course absolutely fine. It’s just that I didn’t feel very included at all whilst I was with her and the other two women, and I wouldn’t treat others the way they treated me, so I felt uncomfortable and unhappy for a lot of the time I was on holiday with them.

You are absolutely spot on. Thank you. I do need to remember this, and to separate her life and achievements from my own life. I think I just felt quite rejected by her whilst I was on holiday with her, and this really hurt because we’d got on fairly well before the holiday.

As I’d had an unpleasant experience with her - and the other women - on this holiday, there is a part of me that regrets going on it. Having said that though, I also think that if I’d never gone, I would never have realised how much resilience I have. And I did enjoy some things about the holiday - it wasn’t all difficult.

That’s a good point - and I actually don’t think I do want to be friends with her. The holiday with her has shown me how little we have in common and how different we are. We have very different lives and interests, and also quite different personalities and values.

Before the holiday, we’d known each other for a couple of years, and I enjoyed spending time with her and the other women. We’d keep in touch fairly regularly by text and would meet for lunch/coffee every few months, which I enjoyed.

We all tried to support each other through things in our lives too - e.g. a close relative of mine passed away a few months ago, and the funeral clashed with a holiday I was meant to have with the women, which meant I couldn’t go, and I think they supported me through that. Also, the woman I mention here has had a lot going on recently and we’ve all tried to give her moral and practical support.

All of this has made me think we get on well together and are there for each other. However, clearly, this holiday - which was a week long, so quite a long time to spend with anyone, especially three other people who we barely know! - has shown me that I’m not really compatible with her or with the two other women.

I previously liked and admired this woman’s drive and determination, and I thought the four of us would be good support for each other and would be there for each other whilst we get further in our careers, as we all work in the same city and the same industry and all three of the other women are very high achievers. I’ve also tried to support this woman with her career, giving her tips and advice after she’s asked me for it, and she did seem grateful for it.

However I can see now that we’re not really compatible. I messaged the other women to see if they wanted to meet up for a coffee (hoping they’d say no, strangely - I think I wanted a rejection and ‘closure’, if that makes sense, although I realise how strange that sounds!!) Two of the women replied with polite decline messages, and this woman never replied.

It’s made me feel like a crap judge of character and has made me question my confidence too - because it all panned out very differently to how I’d imagined - although I know it’s all very minor in the grand scheme of things!! I feel like I can just put this all behind now tbh.

She’s made a success of her life, which is great. But, if you don’t like her, or feel jealous, it’s probably time to end the friendship.

It sounds as though this is what she wants anyway.

This woman was also quite snarky to me several times on holiday, and that was the only time she would speak to me directly. Otherwise she just ignored me.

She would make comments like ‘oh you’ve really burned, haven’t you!!’ when I got sunburned one day on holiday or she’d comment that I held my phone quite close to my face when looking at it.

Or there was other stuff like - one day we went to the sea and had a swim, and I swam quite far out, and when I came back to our spot on the beach, she said something like ‘you swim really well, don’t you’. I took it as a compliment, so I thanked her, and she then said ‘oh no, it was a question’, basically asking if I swam well, and then she started talking about how rubbish she was at swimming.

Again, all very minor and insignificant, but it just hurt me, because it all made me feel quite small and dismissed.

Thanks - yes, I agree.

I’ve got a question which is minor and a bit daft. I’m part of a WhatsApp group with the other three women, and no one - apart from me - has posted in it since the holiday. No doubt they’ll have already created another separate group to use anyway.

I just want to forget about the bloody Whatsapp group. Should I stay in it and just archive it in my phone? I’m thinking of leaving it, just to forget about it completely and have a completely fresh start, but I never leave groups as it always seems to me to be a bit attention-seeking and would probably give them something to gossip about, which I don’t want to do. Archiving it is probably the best option.

It sounds for me that this woman is not really nice at all. I don’t know but the vibe is really off. When she needed your help and support she was asking your advice etc but now she moved in her career and doesn’t care about being nice and polite to you. Be careful as you are at the same industry, she could be slugging you off at the first opportunity.

Thanks pizza - yes I’ll be careful, for sure. I think we just had a personality clash and no doubt she finds me annnoying and irritating! I’m just glad to be back and not on the holiday anymore!

It might be helpful to look into why, out of all the people in your life, you have chosen to compare yourself to and be unsettled by this woman; that may open up some answers for you.

You can compare yourself to virtually anyone, why her?

Are any of those reasons relevant to why a comparison should be drawn?

Comparing human beings, even twins, is like comparing apples and oranges.
Would you judge a fish by its ability to fly in the air?

Can you think of any other things unique to you that you’re really good at?

Can you find a way to work on the insecurities this woman seems to trigger in you, without making it about her at all?
Having her in your head is what is bringing you down, you need to evict her from your mind, and replace her with what is of benefit to you.

Come up with ways to avoid this sort of rumination, it’s only going to hinder you.

Can you write a list of 5 things you love about yourself?
How about 5 other things you’re really happy with about your life?
Can you do that each time your mind wonders to her?

Gratitude lists and healthy distractions might be your biggest defences against this.

If you can afford it, I would really recommend talk therapy.
I think there are underlying issues and this woman is just a symptom of that.

I do wish you al, the best of luck with this.

Being resilient is a wonderful trait but more often than not it’s built around tough circumstances and people tend to focus on the end outcome wanting that for themselves, forgetting the cause if you know I mean, it’s not something to envy necessarily.
This person sounds a bit full of themselves if I am nohest, and because you thought highly of her, you really wanted her to like you but I personally couldn’t be around someone who talks about themselves all the time, they need an audience not friends, it gets really boring quite quickly.

when I spent time with her on holiday, she made me feel insecure and unhappy because she would barely acknowledge me and never ask me about myself, and I managed that feeling by wanting to be more like her. Does that make sense?

So basically she was rude and inconsiderate of your feelings which led to you feeling inadequate and wishing you were more like her?

I think you’ve already identified that this doesn’t make sense and being around her isn’t good for you. You are nicer than her. Lots of ruthless people are successful but it isn’t a very likeable trait.

Put it behind you and archive the group.

Thanks very much Hockeymom. I think the main reason why I’ve felt so unsettled by this woman is because, in all our interactions together on this holiday, she either ignored me (just focusing on and speaking to the other women, even when we were all doing stuff together like having a meal), said something a bit snarky or complained to me about how one of the other women were behaving. I just found that really unpleasant and rude, and difficult to deal with because she’s never behaved that way to me before. She’d always been friendly to me before and now it felt to me like she was behaving completely differently and unpleasantly.

I think I’ve now found some closure, so that will definitely help me to stop comparing myself to her and to think about the holiday. The holiday had a big impact on me because I just saw a totally different - and unpleasant - side to this woman that I hadn’t seen before.

I’m sure she’d probably have things to say about me from the holiday - e.g. I became a bit of a people pleaser at times, because we were mainly communicating in my third language, which is a language all 4 of us had in common, and which I have never used to such an extent as I did on the holiday. I get that this must have been annoying for her to deal with, especially as she’s the opposite of that (she’s very direct and outwardly very confident, even forceful). However, she dealt with it by being quite rude and unpleasant - as I mention in my posts above.

I think I’m comparing myself to her because her behaviour on the holiday really affected me - although I doubt we’ll see each other again now, which will certainly help me move on. And probably I’m comparing myself to her because she has been very open about the challenges she’s faced in her life - not at all in a pitying way, but in a very matter of fact way, and she’s never really presented them as challenges. I suppose I feel inadequate because, whilst I think I’ve achieved a lot in my life so far and have faced some challenges, they haven’t really been on the scale of what she’s faced.

I also think I was going through a period in my life where I felt quite lonely and lacking in resilience when I met these women, and I thought that we had things in common (I think we all thought this) and that we could support each other. However I can see that that’s not the case, and that whilst I’m glad to have met them when I did, I don’t think there’s any point us continuing our friendship (and I don’t think any of us want to continue it - at least not in its current form with the 4 of us). I think that is a shame but it’s definitely for the best.

Yes absolutely, I totally agree. I don’t think we were ever equals in the friendship - she was very much the ‘leader’ of the group, I think.