Mixed feelings towards friend - admiration/jealousy/frustration. AIBU to ask for advice?

[Acapulco12]

I went on holiday with a few friends a few weeks ago. We’ve known each other for a couple of years now and see each other every couple of months, and I liked them all beforehand, but the holiday showed me a different side to one of them in particular.

During and after the holiday, I realised I have quite mixed feelings and emotions about this friend. I really admire her, but don’t really like her as a person (and I don’t think she likes me much either). I just feel quite sad as well, because I doubt we’ll stay in touch, but I’m equally quite relieved that I probably won’t have to socialise much with her.

To give some background, my friend moved to the U.K. (where all 3 of us live) from Portugal around 10 years ago, basically with nothing.

She’d gone to uni in Portugal and decided to move to the U.K. for better job prospects. When she moved to the U.K., she started work in a coffee shop and then applied for jobs in government, which has led her to now have quite a prestigious job. I was so impressed by this, and yes quite jealous/envious.

Although she’s still quite junior in her role, her job is very prestigious and - more importantly - I’m sure she’ll learn a lot from it. She’s now fully settled in the U.K., with British citizenship, and has just bought a place with her partner.

Her life is quite hard in lots of ways e.g. her partner can be quite controlling and at times has been physically threatening towards her, her job is very stressful and demanding and she also has a long-term (minor) health condition.

Despite all of this, she’s continued to persevere and is doing very well. She is incredibly tough and resilient, and obviously a very hard worker. She’s also very intelligent, as she’s able to work out very quickly how to navigate situations (in work and life) and to understand what’s required of her (e.g. in stressful situations at work).

However, she is also quite impatient and direct, and can be quite self-absorbed (she barely asks anyone questions when with them and will very often just talk about herself and problems in her life).

I guess I’m asking how I can be more resilient and tough, like her? I’m proud of what I’ve achieved so far in life and I feel like I’m fairly resilient.

However, I’ve definitely had fewer challenges in life than she has (I didn’t have to move countries or learn a new language to have better economic prospects, for instance).

I think I feel ‘less than’ in comparison to her.I guess I feel a bit guilty that I haven’t needed to navigate as many challenges in my life. It’s a weird feeling, especially considering I don’t really know her that well - I know a lot more about her than she does about me, as she’s not really expressed any interest in my life at all.

Is there anything I can do to help with this feeling?

You have posted about this before. I think it's slightly disingenuous to namechange and post again. What are you hoping to achieve here that your last thread didn't achieve?

I get where you’re coming from but I think that’s a bit of a harsh judgement.

I tried to explain in an earlier post on this thread that my previous thread was more about the vibe of the holiday and me feeling uncomfortable and unhappy, and this thread is specifically about one of the women I went on the holiday with.

I know these two topics are connected, but I chose to start this new thread because I was hoping to get specific advice on how to manage the feelings I have around my friendship/interactions with one of the women I went on holiday with.

I also name-changed for this thread because I know people in real life who are on here and I didn’t want them to make comparisons or connections between the two threads.

I’m sorry that it looks like I’ve been disingenuous. I do understand why it might seem like I’ve not been completely upfront and clear, and I hope I’ve explained it here.

Thank you to everyone who’s posted on both threads - your advice has been really helpful and appreciated.

Fair enough.

As per the last thread, you seem like a kind, articulate, friendly person and you'll meet your tribe. Don't waste any more time or effort on these people. And certainly don't compare yourself to them.

Ask yourself this, is someone who has a controlling partner really aspirational? The "friend" in question clearly doesn't have her life anywhere near as sorted as she likes to think!

I think some of this is cultural differences. I’m not British and to me those comments that you felt were snarky doesn’t seem like anything other than small talk to me.

Having said that, her aspirational nature explains why she hasn’t shown interest in you as a person. If you aren’t above her so to speak she won’t want to know. She is the kind of person who will most likely surround herself with people who can offer her a step up in some capacity otherwise they are just fillers of her world. This has no reflection on you, other than it shows you are a much nicer and genuine human to be around. She will most likely end up with a good career and lots of superficial friends but she will never feel fulfilled.

Thanks RoachFish. Perhaps it was just small talk - even so, it wasn’t necessary and it wasn’t nice.

I agree with what you’re saying about her being aspirational and that, because of that, she’s not interested in me.

Having said that, she told us on holiday about an old school friend of hers, from her home country, who she met up with a few years ago after not seeing her for a while and who she thought had suddenly become really superficial and money-focused, which has led to them drifting apart and their friendship ending.

The fact she said she was put off by the friend seeming so superficial has made me think that actually she does value fulfilment and actually is against superficiality and surface-level friendship and connection that isn’t genuine. I’m not sure though - I could be wrong.

I really can’t see much wrong with what was said here.

If you are looking at someone with a microscope and you’re looking for missteps you’ll find them, and if you’re looking for good you’ll find that too in most cases.

Jealousy by its very definition will cause unhappiness and anger directed at that individual.
You won’t have been able to think objectively while experiencing this emotion.

Very few people would survive that level of scrutiny and comparison.

Forgetting this woman for a moment, jealousy is a form of self harm.
For your own well-being, please remove yourself from her, forgive her (forgiveness is a gift we give to ourselves), and move on with your own life and establishing those things you want.
A relationship and a home is very achievable if you apply yourself very seriously and diligently.
Expend your energies there, feeling jealous of this woman will only drain your own energies and drive.

You are both very different people, and that’s okay, no one has to be wrong and no one has to be right.

It’s possible to have two good people who just happen to be incompatible. We don’t have to paint one black and the other white.
Part of coming into the more mature years is considering all the colours and shades in between.

Maybe not long from now, you will have that lovely relationship and cosy home, isn’t that a more pleasant thing to think about?
Try to fill your head with pretty and bright things.
Avoid criticising yourself, rather, encourage yourself, that will bring out the best in you.

You sound like a lovely young woman. Have a non Mumsnet hug.

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer springs to mind.
If you don’t like her just drop her.
With friends like you, who needs enemies.
If trivial comments about swimming, phones, or sunburn, elicits this kind of response in you, I wonder what you would do to her if she actually had done something outright mean and nasty to you.

Not a fan of “people pleasers”, or in this case, two-faced people, I’ve encountered them a fair few times. Just be honest.
Just imagine what she might feel if she read this, it’s very mean spirited.

This has left a bad taste in my mouth for some reason, I really hope I don’t have “friends” like who secretly feel this way about me.

I can just imagine being on holiday happy and smiling and having a toast by the pool, all the while bitter resentful thoughts are camping out in your mind.

Count me amongst those who can’t abide stealth frenemies.

Thanks @Kidsareup ❤️ I agree that those comments on their own are not really an issue in themselves. However, they became a problem for me because these comments were the only interaction with her. Aside from these comments, she ignored me and would look at and address the other women we were with. That really hurt me and made me feel small. It felt really painful to be ignored by her all the time - it was like I wasn’t there.

It was a bad decision on my part to go on holiday with her and the other women - I get that and I agree. I thought it would be really enjoyable though as I thought we’d really bonded and got on well in the time we’d known each other before. I didn’t think we be incompatible. We’d all got on well and treated each other kindly and tolerantly, and I found interacting with her on this holiday really difficult.

You are absolutely entitled to think this, especially because we don’t know each other and were just two anonymous strangers both posting on an Internet thread.

I feel upset by your comment though. I’m not a stealth frenemy and I never have been and never will be. I treat my friends, family and - I like to think - everyone I meet - with kindness and respect, just as I’d want them to treat me.

I realise that jealousy is not at all a nice trait. I know it’s horrible. I rarely feel jealous of anyone - in fact, I don’t think I’ve ever really felt it. I was wary about mentioning I was jealous on this thread, because I know it’s a terrible thing to feel and to say, but I wanted to be honest about how I felt.

This woman didn’t do anything outright mean and nasty to me on the holiday, but she ignored me most of the time and acted as if I wasn’t there - that’s not overt but it doesn’t mean it’s not nasty. Ignoring someone and freezing them out is cruel, but sneaky, so harder to prove and see than saying or doing something nasty.

I realise that it’s quite shocking to admit you feel jealous, and to be honest, I’m not even sure it was jealousy. It probably was - it was mostly a response to feeling ignored and dismissed by this woman I was with and possibly wanting her to like me and wanting to have some of the things she has - even though I am very lucky and I have a very privileged life. Does that make sense?

The fact you have stated several times now, that you want what she has, is very chilling.

And to be jealous of her resilience in the face of challenges, I have no words.
It sounds like you don’t want her to have anything at all?
That’s really mean. And her offence - she ignored you, shocking, string her up.
You sound high maintenance and hard work.
I would have more sympathy if you told me something concrete she did to you.

Does that make sense?

Pause for a moment and ask yourself, did you want an echo chamber in this thread or honest feedback?
You’ve had very thoughtful and supportive replies already, but sometimes, we need to be jolted out of unhelpful states.

Let your “friend” go, I don’t mean physically, let her go in your mind. Free yourself.
Then schedule some sessions with a counsellor to deal with the insecurity, that is the root of it all.

Don’t blame your insecurity on others, take responsibility for it, that’s the first step in healing yourself.

Remember, no one can make you feel any kind of way unless you allow it and choose it. You have power and agency over yourself, learn to use it.

Or, you can do as you always did, in which case, nothing will change.

I don’t agree that it’s ‘chilling’ at all. I’m not at all sure how it comes across like that. It sounds like you’re suggesting I want her life and like I want everything she has. That is absolutely not the case and it never has been. I don’t think I have said anything in this thread that suggests this. I would like to have certain personality traits that she has, and certain things in her life that I don’t have - yes. However I am generally very happy and content with my life and I’m not a jealous or insecure person.

Equally, I don’t agree that I’ve said that I’m jealous of her resilience. I’ve actually said that I admire her resilience, which is absolutely accurate, because I do admire it. I’m also not sure where you’ve got the idea that I don’t want her to have anything at all.

I’ve tried to word my explanation of my feelings carefully, to show honesty and openness (which I think I have done) and also to show that there are certain aspects of her life and certain personality traits she has that I admire and would also like to have. I think it is a big leap - and completely inaccurate - for you to infer from my posts that I want exactly what she has.

In terms of her ignoring me, it felt really uncomfortable and it was horrible. Ignoring someone is a concrete thing. I totally agree and understand that it’s not a major, major issue, but it was unpleasant.

I wanted honest feedback from this thread and I am very grateful that I got it. The vast majority of the posts have been honest yet also kind, considerate and constructive, which I have appreciated.

I do think I’m a fairly resilient and independent person, and I know I also have power and agency. I’m not at all a high maintenance person in real life. Perhaps I have given an indication that I am on this thread - although I’m not sure where. It still stands that what I experienced on the holiday did upset me. That doesn’t mean that everyone will be affected by this sort of thing - of course it doesn’t. Some people might be affected by it - more than me or less than me - whilst others may not be affected at all. I have now let the incident go. It is now behind me and I don’t need to let it take up space in my mind anymore.

Originally, I wanted to post about it on here to get some advice and perspective, and I have received very helpful and constructive advice. Thank you very much to everyone who’s taken the time to post - I appreciate it.

It might be a cultural thing?

She may look at you and be a little jealous. You haven’t had to strive and move away from loved ones, she has a controlling partner and quite possibly had to fight to go away with friends. Her nature is to be colder than others so she can succeed at being ruthless. She happily talks of her achievements without once considering asking someone else (who has patiently listened to them).

I wonder if she looks at you being happy, self assure and quietly confident with no need to emphasise their achievements, with an air of wistful longing? Working for the government in any capacity is usually a hard slog, not as well paid as you’d like and probably not glamorous!

sometimes friendships evolve in a positive or negative way, this will always happen. I suggest to always aim to surround yourself with people who help you too and make you feel happy.

Depending on tone this comment isn't especially rude. Are you reading too much into it?

What I will say is you are very right that being a ‘foreigner’ gives you a huge amount of challenge and resilience in life. She has earnt her stripes!!! It sounds like you maybe feel bored with your life and the path you’ve taken. It’s possible her directness isn’t rudeness but more cultural- I think British people are really sensitive to rudeness as it’s our culture whereas many other cultures are more direct in their way of speaking and communicating with less ‘fluff’- it’s actually quite difficult if English isn’t your first language to speak in the exact same way a native British person would phrase things so perhaps she is just doing her best in a foreign language. I’m sure she wouldn’t want you to feel negative about yourself and I doubt your assumptions that she doesn’t like you are true tbh!

I don’t think your friend sounds like she’s done anything wrong. I actually think this is your issue and that you are jealous of her, I’m sorry not meaning to sound hard it’s just how it comes across.
Look at your life and makes changes where you don’t feel your needs are being met you’ll soon learn to not envy others and be happy in your own life and journey.

She is jealous about you, these are very common reactions of insecure people. Deal with your own insecurities, be proud of yourself without comparing to her. You have something she wants 😁. When you leave/cut these people from your life, the space will be filled by people within your energy. Good luck xx

OP, you are devoting far too much headspace to this. Honestly, it’s coming across a bit as though you had built up this friendship in your head to the point that you created an entire fantasy best friends relationship with a woman you really didn’t know very well, and are now angry because it didn’t become a reality. And I have to say, I think it’s possible that some of this rather obsessive focus on her was apparent, and was the reason she was a bit cold towards you- it could have made her quite uncomfortable. Let it go.

It sounds like this whole intense girly group friendship thing just isn't your cup of tea and doesn't enhance your life.

Your holidays and social group should enrich you and help you reach your goals in life.

It does definitely happen in groups with one person subtly engineering the conversation so another person is ignored or frozen out (they know 100% they're doing it).

Often women who take a jealous dislike to another for an arbitrary reason.

Incidentally, if she's so good at handling herself and being alpha female in a group, why can't she bring those skills to her partner?

Often I find women who treat other women disdainfully to be utter doormats when it comes to men...go figure....?

I'd just focus on your own goals, treat friends lightly.

Time moves so fast, even people who get on really well and have amazing holidays lose contact at your age!

Envy is the ugliest of emotions.

@Acapulco12 I’m really confused how you can admire/be jealous of a woman who stays in an abusive relationship. You said physically abusive, do you see her with bruises when you meet? She doesn’t sound smart at all, I would feel sorry for her and trying to support her by persuading her finding professional help to leave him. Also, what you mentioned about the language that you were communicating, it happens to switch to the language that the majority are native speakers.. especially in holiday. I have seen that in multicultural work environments as well and I adapted. I don’t think they don’t like you though OP but the language thing it is a link between the rest of them so I’m sorry that you are left outside of the circle. They will still see you for coffee etc but not that often. If you want more you need to search elsewhere I’m afraid..

This is a good comment. I’m American who lives in the UK, was fairly ambitious in my career, direct in my conversation, and worked very hard, and on reflection, I’m sure that put some people off. I wasn’t picking up on the nuances in conversations where things were not said or just British banter; the Brits got it, I just didn’t and it has taken me a while to sort this out. Maybe because you were speaking in Portuguese and it is not your native language, some of this happened to you? For example, I didn’t see a lot that was rude in things she said to you in your examples, but I wasn’t there to assess the tone of the conversation.

I’ll also say that being in survival mode hardens people. when you have to fight for everything, it is hard to let your guard down and relax and be vulnerable. (I’m totally guilty of this sometimes). Whilst she absolutely didn’t have the right to be rude to you, she’s in an abusive relationship and has health problems and a stressful job…that combination is going to affect her ability to be empathetic to some degree.

Also, (and I say this gently as you really seemed to have suffered with thinking about this situation), comparison is the thief of joy. Maybe next time go on holiday with some different friends and no need to ruminate on it any longer.

I think she’s probably quite self-centred and she doesn’t really care about the effect she has on others if she doesn’t like them or doesn’t want anything from them.

What is strange about not having time for people one doesn’t like or want anything from?
If one catered to absolutely everyone, one would be spread so thinly one wouldn’t be able have deep or quality interactions!
And I don’t think it’s very healthy to force yourself to be with people you don’t like, as you are discovering!

You seem to be searching for any stick to beat her with.

Your posts contain a lot of reaching, and there is a lot going on inside your head rather than actual bad events that have happened to you.
The only truly bad things that are happening are your unspoken anger and resentment towards her.

I think you need to engage in a little more self reflection.

If I had to choose between being ignored or spending a week with a jealous “friend”, I know which I’d be choosing.

I will chorus the suggestion to speak with a therapist about your difficulties. Find one that has expertise in insecurity and jealousy.

@Acapulco12 you’ve been brave sharing your emotions on this thread. Don’t let others lay into you now that you’ve opened up.

Forgive yourself for going on the holiday. You’ve learned a lot about yourself and about what you want and don’t want. It’s almost like a template. For some reason this woman was like a mirror for you. You realise that she showed you some things you want to have too: house, job, (non-abusive obv) relationship, resilience. It’s great to be inspired by that. She also triggered your insecurities and showed you where you might have limiting beliefs.

There’s nothing mean spirited about you posting about all this, or starting two non-connected threads about the situation. And there’s definitely nothing stealth frenemy like about it. I agree that a lot can be explained by cultural differences. So you can take the good bits from her culture and channel that for yourself.

You’re now letting go of the tension all this created and letting go of the group. And you’re ready to adjust a few things in your life. You got this.