Mixed feelings towards friend - admiration/jealousy/frustration. AIBU to ask for advice?

[Acapulco12]

I went on holiday with a few friends a few weeks ago. We’ve known each other for a couple of years now and see each other every couple of months, and I liked them all beforehand, but the holiday showed me a different side to one of them in particular.

During and after the holiday, I realised I have quite mixed feelings and emotions about this friend. I really admire her, but don’t really like her as a person (and I don’t think she likes me much either). I just feel quite sad as well, because I doubt we’ll stay in touch, but I’m equally quite relieved that I probably won’t have to socialise much with her.

To give some background, my friend moved to the U.K. (where all 3 of us live) from Portugal around 10 years ago, basically with nothing.

She’d gone to uni in Portugal and decided to move to the U.K. for better job prospects. When she moved to the U.K., she started work in a coffee shop and then applied for jobs in government, which has led her to now have quite a prestigious job. I was so impressed by this, and yes quite jealous/envious.

Although she’s still quite junior in her role, her job is very prestigious and - more importantly - I’m sure she’ll learn a lot from it. She’s now fully settled in the U.K., with British citizenship, and has just bought a place with her partner.

Her life is quite hard in lots of ways e.g. her partner can be quite controlling and at times has been physically threatening towards her, her job is very stressful and demanding and she also has a long-term (minor) health condition.

Despite all of this, she’s continued to persevere and is doing very well. She is incredibly tough and resilient, and obviously a very hard worker. She’s also very intelligent, as she’s able to work out very quickly how to navigate situations (in work and life) and to understand what’s required of her (e.g. in stressful situations at work).

However, she is also quite impatient and direct, and can be quite self-absorbed (she barely asks anyone questions when with them and will very often just talk about herself and problems in her life).

I guess I’m asking how I can be more resilient and tough, like her? I’m proud of what I’ve achieved so far in life and I feel like I’m fairly resilient.

However, I’ve definitely had fewer challenges in life than she has (I didn’t have to move countries or learn a new language to have better economic prospects, for instance).

I think I feel ‘less than’ in comparison to her.I guess I feel a bit guilty that I haven’t needed to navigate as many challenges in my life. It’s a weird feeling, especially considering I don’t really know her that well - I know a lot more about her than she does about me, as she’s not really expressed any interest in my life at all.

Is there anything I can do to help with this feeling?

Yes it was exactly this. Thank you ❤️

Is it a language thing too - difficulty expressing in 2nd language?

I do think comparison is thief of joy - be the best person you can yourself.

She sounds really horrible to be honest. Dont mistake her arrogance for "resilience" or healthy self esteem - she's clearly full of herself, looking down on others. If I had a dime for every time I've met someone like her...
I'm so sorry she's made you feel so low.
Try to remember that you've been kind and just happened to be with unpleasant people. It's happened to me before where I've been ostracised and felt like there must have been something wrong with me, though I couldn't work out what. I know I'm a nice person but I have different interests and personality to most people and I often get shunned for it. Because people are heartless and don't care. I try to focus on the good people I've met who have appreciated my friendship and reciprocated.

Yes, definitely.

All 3 of the other women speak English fluently and they’ve lived in the U.K. for several years and are permanently based here, so that’s our main common language.

I also speak Portuguese, which is our other common language - 2 of the women are native speakers, and the other is not but is almost fluent, while I speak it very well but not so well as to feel confident speaking it 24/7 with no errors and with the ability to fully express myself.

This definitely affected my communication with the other women and my confidence, as I didn’t feel fully able to relax whilst speaking in Portuguese, whereas they did.

Thank you so much. I think she’s a real fighter and full of resilience, but this hard-won strength and success has probably made her quite intolerant and lacking in empathy for those she doesn’t think are deserving of her tolerance or empathy.

I know she can be empathetic and kind, as I’ve heard her talk about how she can be, and I’ve seen her be kind, but I think there’s a part of her that is quite strategic about how she uses her empathy and kindness. I think she must have found me irritating or annoying, or just not worth her time, so she didn’t want to use it with me - or perhaps she just wasn’t aware that her behaviour towards me was hurtful.

I know there are some differences between U.K. culture and Portuguese culture, as generally we’re more reserved, more outwardly polite and much less direct in the U.K. (I know this is a big generalisation!) I’m quite shy, reserved and can be sensitive, although, like with anyone, this varies, depending on how confident and comfortable I feel in situations I’m in and whether I feel accepted or not.

I also know though that she is capable of adapting her behaviour to suit others, where needed, as she is emotionally intelligent and she’s been in the U.K. for over a decade, so is clearly very used to U.K. culture, even if she doesn’t always agree with it. The other women in the group are all from similar cultures to hers, so they probably just thought it wasn’t worth adapting their behaviour just for me - not that they needed to, but it would’ve been a nice gesture.

You've had some amazing replies and suggestions on here, OP.

I would also add that it sounds like you crave the human connection element of friendship. She may, as others have observed, prefer a more superficial companionship type of friendship - at least within this group. If your social communication style is very different, she may have picked up on this and it found it as off-putting as you did. And there's nothing wrong with that. Neither of you is right/wrong but you are clearly very different.

Secondly, holidays with friends can be a nightmare. When my children were young, we were invited to holidays with another family for a week. The holiday was a fucking nightmare 🤣 The friendship survived it but only, I think, because it was NEVER mentioned again!

And my last point, I know a man (an ex actually) who is far more confident and successful than any of my other friends. He lives in a beautiful 4 bedroomed Victorian villa, drives an expensive, enviable car, has a 6 figure salary, dresses impeccably, is accomplished in many fields and generous with his money to boot. Outwardly, many people admire him, want to know him, covet aspects of his life but, behind closed doors, he is riddled with self doubt and has chronically low self esteem. His successes aren't borne of confidence and self assuredness but of a sense of inadequacy, a fear of failure and a need to prove his worth by being 'better' than everyone else.

He rattles around that big house alone because no woman he has dated has ever been 'good enough' for him. He craves a family life but will only consider it with a 25 year old swimwear model (essentially). As he is now in his late 50s, that's increasingly unlikely to happen!

You never no what is going on behind the closed door of someone's life.

All that glitters is definitely not gold!

How old are you all?

The whole thing sounds really bizarre. A week long holiday with friends you’re not that close to and only see for a coffee every few months sounds like a recipe for disaster!

The other women in the group are all from similar cultures to hers, so they probably just thought it wasn’t worth adapting their behaviour just for me

That's probably very relevant, OP.

Cultures that are very blunt, abrupt can often appear rude even when they are not! But I can understand how that would.make you feel on the back foot. If they are all similar that would compound it.

I’m quite shy, reserved and can be sensitive

That's probably as irritating to people who are more brusque as much as the opposite is true.

I'd probably step back from it to a degree now, esp if you suspect that they've set up another group and focus on people you're more compatible with.

Thanks GreyCarpet I agree with everything you’ve said.

We’re in our early to mid-thirties.

And yep I know! I agree that it is a bit bonkers to go on holiday with people you barely know. The group went on a previous holiday for a weekend - which is probably doable - and I was also due to go, but couldn’t, as I had a family funeral that clashed with it. A week-long holiday is way too long though.

*I’m quite shy, reserved and can be sensitive

That's probably as irritating to people who are more brusque as much as the opposite is true.

Yes that’s very true. I was aware of this during the holiday, particularly as this was the longest amount of time we’d ever spent together. I can see how our personalities probably clash and don’t really complement each other.

Someone has already mentioned comparison being the thief of joy which is something I remind myself of whenever I go down a rabbit hole of "why aren't I more like x? Why am I failing?" (To be fair I do this a lot less lately because I have some actual serious problems to sort out ... but it has been an issue that has held me back in life because comparison gets you nowhere).

Nothing you've written about this woman makes me want to be like her or understand why you wish you were more like her. Yes, she's managed some admirable stuff, a good job in a country where she isn't using her native language. That's admirable. But the rest? You already know that her behind closed doors isn't particularly something to envy. An abusive boyfriend and health issues. Maybe she's coping with the health issues, she is definitely not dealing with the horrible boyfriend. I'm sure you wouldn't want that to be in your life. She also seems rude and blunt, especially toward you. So, apart from her having a decent job that she's good at what else is there?

Don't you yourself have a decent job that you're good at? Aren't you kinder? I'm guessing your healthier, that you don't have an arsehole for a boyfriend? Let it go. You don't need to be like her, you just need to be you and the best you you can be. That doesn't involve you being any version of her at all.

You are good enough. That's it really. You are good enough. You may even be miles and many miles better than her but it doesn't matter because we're not comparing you with anyone other than you and you are good enough.

Did you post about this holiday before? I seem to have read something similar recently

Thanks Mouse 😊 I’m really sorry you’ve got other difficult things going on. I wish you all the best with resolving those.

Normally I’d say I’m quite rational and sensible about avoiding comparing myself to others and catching myself when I find myself doing it.

I think I got caught up in comparing myself to her partly because I’d spent so much time with her and the other women on the holiday, for a long time (a week). I’m sure it was also because I found myself feeling inadequate, because I couldn’t speak our common language as well as the three of them, and because I don’t have a lot of things they do (e.g. I’m single - which I’m happy with, but am also comfortable and ready to start dating - whereas they all have boyfriends) and just generally didn’t have much in common with them. Whilst I feel ready to start dating, I really want to avoid being in the sort of relationship that this woman is in - as much as possible - where I have an abusive partner. He is both physically and mentally abusive, and loses his temper very quickly and unpredictably, and that’s completely the opposite of what I’d like. I know I want a stable and secure relationship, with no drama.

I also think I blame myself a bit for going on holiday with them. Obviously, it was a daft decision, in hindsight, to go on holiday for a week with three other people I barely knew.

However, because we’d been so open with each other in the couple of years we’d known each other and I’d enjoyed their company when we had met up so far, I was looking forward to the holiday and thought it would go well. Part of this was actually this women talking about difficult things happening in her life (her boyfriend’s behaviour and her health issues), and I suppose part of me felt flattered that she was confiding in me - and the other women - about something so private.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable talking about these sorts of things with people I barely knew, but because she was talking about them freely, I think that made me think we were closer than we were. I wonder if perhaps she feels quite lonely and wanted people to talk with about these experiences. I totally understand that, if that’s the case.

This feeling of blaming myself is probably compounding my feelings of anxiety and comparing myself with that woman.

I probably just need to say to myself that I thought the holiday would be fun and had every reason to think it would be, parts of it were fun and I’d like to go back to where we went on holiday, but I didn’t gel with the people I went on holiday with, and that’s okay. I learned a lot about myself and about communicating in a foreign language that I’m not completely fluent in with people I don’t actually know, and how I react in situations where I feel out of my depth (I become a people-pleaser, basically). I’ve learned that, if I choose to be in situations like this in future, I just need to prepare for them more carefully and also just to see them as a learning experience.

And most importantly, as you say, I should remember I’m good enough as I am. Thank you ❤️

Yes I have posted about it before, under a different name.

I’ve posted this thread under a different name to the previous thread because the two issues I’ve posted about are different - my feeling about this friend, rather than my feelings about the group I went on holiday with - and because some people I know in real life are also on here and I didn’t want them to connect the two threads.

She’d always been friendly to me before and now it felt to me like she was behaving completely differently and unpleasantly.

@Acapulco12

Seems strange she would of change so much, did something happen to kick this off do you think?

You said you seen some health stuff, could that have made her a bit of a grumpy pants? Do you know if she was having a flare up of whatever it was, she the kind would let her mates know if she was feeling a wee bit off?

Sometimes we blame ourselves for things dear and it ain’t about us!

What the woman said about the swimming doesn’t sound too bad to me if that’s the worst thing she said. You should hear some of my goby gal pals!

Sorry you is feeling bad love, might make you feel better to give her the benefit of the doubt?

If it were the other way and yous were a bit off on hols, how would she take it? Basically if you would of did the same to her.

I wouldn’t be envious of anyone with a controlling partner, nor would I envy someone with limited social skills, regardless of their nationality.

Stay as you are OP! You sound a far nicer person than she is.

I think a bit of jealousy is natural here op

Thanks Goldie. I’m not sure if anything happened before or during the holiday that made her change her behaviour. She’s normally very open about anything related to her health or about her boyfriend etc, so I think she would have mentioned if anything had happened that upset her or made her feel angry or unhappy.

The only thing I can think of that would be made her upset/angry with me directly is that, for the first couple of days of the holiday, I didn’t have an Internet connection on my phone when we were out and about (and all of the others did), which maybe made her think I wasn’t being as helpful or pulling my weight as much as I should have been, as I couldn’t help with giving directions to places we were going to.

And another time, we were all heading to the beach from the hotel, and I realised I had forgotten my beach towel, whilst they all had theirs with them. I mentioned this and they all waited for me to head back to the hotel to get my towel, which was kind of them. I did say to them that they could go to the beach without me, and I would catch them up. It was a really short walk from the beach to the hotel - 5 mins max - and I was only gone for 10 mins tops. Whilst I do understand that that’s annoying, I don’t think it justifies ignoring me.

Also before the holiday, she suggested we pool our stuff we were taking on holiday with us, so she brought a bottle of sun cream that she and I shared between us - the other women each had their own bottle - but she always seemed happy to share with me, as she had offered, and I think she would have mentioned if she wasn’t happy to share any more. I did offer to buy another one so we’d have a spare, and she said it was fine and not a problem.

The final thing - I had a handbag with me as a spare bag to take out and about with me during the holiday, whilst all of the other women had rucksacks. We went hiking a couple of times, which would have been difficult with my handbag, so I asked one of the other women if I could put my stuff in her rucksack and she agreed. It was probably a bit irritating for her to have to carry around my stuff - small bottle of warwe, phone - but she said she was happy to do it. Again I don’t know if this irritated the main woman who ignored me. I’m not sure why it would but maybe it did annoy her. Maybe she thought I wasn’t organised enough and that I was being too annoying and dependent. I do understand that and would’ve done things differently, but I also don’t think it’s a massive deal.

Another time, one of the other women was talking - and I jumped in to say something, I think maybe to try and get a word in edgeways, as the main woman was already ignoring me by this point - and the main woman put up her hand to silence me and said ‘let her finish’ in English and our other common language. I do understand that I shouldn’t have interrupted, but I wasn’t trying to be rude - I was just trying to add something to the conversation and I did apologise after - and I thought the way she handled it was a bit high and mighty.

What do you mean @ssd? Is it because she has things that I don’t - e.g. boyfriend, high-profile job, a house of her own?

Yous just didn’t gel well, and you quiet dislike her. that happens.

Jealousy between gal pals group at same times of life happens, perfectly normal my lovely. I think you will get over it quickly by taking a step back from her. Was the insecure feelings better when you seen less of her?

Try your best not to see this woman again and you’ll feel better in a jiffy?

Do you think this woman in her mind thinks she better than you?
You seen any same admiration you was giving her?

Maybe it ain’t so bad as you think, hols bring out the worst!

I think yous two need to stay apart, it’s not good for you to spend time on jealousy. Live your life lass and big up alls the things you have and she hasn’t, I’m sure there are a lot, how nice you is being number one!

Can you go get yourself something big and flashy that she ain’t got? Will cheer you up love.

Do cheering yourself up and forget about this woman!

Must be someone better to admire, do you like autobiographies love? I’m sure they will be more interesting and exciting than this wee gal! Buy yourself a hole bunch of kikass women! Get yourself lost in there, do YOU!

Pity this gal she don’t know how to speak to people proper without stepping on big toe every 5 secs.

The real danger and tragedy of jealousy, is that it poisons everything you think about.
The insecurity of it causes a sort of hyper sensitivity that makes one look through everything with a distorted lens, even perfectly innocent remarks or small inconsequential actions can appear micro attacks.

The first thing jealousy harms and destroys is the person suffering from it, victim number one, others can sometimes follow.

You have done so well to recognise it. You are already ahead of the game because you have insight, with that, you can definitely progress and go a long way.

Can you think how you might begin to alleviate this situation for yourself? You know yourself best and you know what will and won’t work for you.
We can make suggestions and help you sort through your thoughts.

Thanks Goldie, I appreciate your kind words 😊

I think it’s just that - that we didn’t gel together well. I don’t think she thinks she’s better than me - I think she’s probably quite self-centred and she doesn’t really care about the effect she has on others if she doesn’t like them or doesn’t want anything from them.

I don’t think we’ll be seeing each other again, as I don’t particularly want to see her again and I don’t think she wants to see me either. I think I’ll feel much more secure now, as I won’t see her again or keep in touch with her. I just feel a bit stupid to have gone on holiday with people I barely knew and that the holiday showed me a whole different side to her that I didn’t like (although I’m sure she could say the same about me).

You don't need to be like her, in any way. Be you.

Much of what you've written sounds like holiday incompatibility - many of us have been there! You live and learn.

Thanks Hockey. I think I basically have now realised that I want a couple of things she has - a relationship, a house of my own and a high-profile job (to put it bluntly!) I already have a good job, but I’m renting a place and I’m single, so if nothing else, this has shown me what I would really like. Having said that though, whilst I’m ready to start dating, I also want to have fun and don’t want to get into a relationship too quickly, and really want to try and avoid a relationship like hers, with an abusive partner.

Any feelings I have towards her of jealousy are reducing, as I know we won’t be seeing each other again.

I think the feeling of jealousy was also motivated by me feeling angry and upset towards her, as I’d felt we had some common ground before the holiday, and then during the holiday, she would ignore me and it then felt as if everything I’d thought about our interactions/friendship previously had not been what I’d imagined.

There was no point during the holiday where she was actually nice or kind to me. Whilst she doesn’t owe me anything, I remember thinking during the holiday - there is absolutely nothing for me here and I’m not enjoying the holiday, even though she might be. I just felt quite lonely on the holiday.