To not see how the gov will make any money from taxing private schools?

[AngryHedgehog]

All the other threads seem to have descended into bunfighting over the ethics of the policy, yet I'm not really understanding how this stands to benefit the government as surely they'll be footing the bill for all the kids that move to state schools?

As a disclaimer, I don't have kids and wouldn't be able to afford to privately educate them even if I did, despite earning a half decent salary.

I'm reading that it costs around £7k per pupil per term, so it would take the VAT from around four families to fund each additional child moving to state education.

Given that this may be 4/10 kids in private education moving to state schooling, I don't see how this doesn't create a net loss as there will only be 50% more kids left in private education and there needs to be multiple times that for the VAT increase to foot the bill.

Surely I'm missing something here?

The issue is people moving sectors and if enough do no extra funding for state

There are better ways to improve state

These are kids without ECHPs so not currently funded by the government.

@horseyhorsey17 the reason private schools aren't currently paying VAT, is because under EU law, it's illegal to tax children's education. No other country in the world considers it reasonable to tax educating kids. We'll be absolute trailblazers with this one.

You’ll just have to scrimp and save a bit more….isnt this what people say to families who can’t afford to keep their homes warm & food on the table?

@edwinbear some countries even subsidise parents if they send their children to private school

Takes years to build these special schools. Blair was supposed to have built a few way back when he was in power, but they never materialised.

Both parties are to blame for the SEN situation.

Exactly.

It absolutely does make sense, because why should private schools be exempt from VAT? It's not the state's problem if adding VAT makes private schools unaffordable for some parents - and the ordinary tax payer does not gain from other people's children going to private school and getting advantages that their own children do not receive. Private schools embed inequality and do nothing for society.

Also it's not as straightforward as you're suggesting for state schools - which are already underfunded - to claim back VAT. Deferring repayments in that way when schools are already cash-strapped is clearly detrimental to the school and the education of the children within it, plus the money is returned to the local authorities and not necessarily to the schools at all. And they don't recover all the VAT they incur.

Do you think universities shouldn't have to pay VAT either then? Presumably you don't. Who subsidises the loss to the Treasury though?

Of course they offer net benefits to the tax payer. They enable wealthy parents to pay for their own education rather than snapping up all the places at the best state funded schools. This saves tax payer money and gives opportunities to children that otherwise wouldn't be able to compete with more wealthy kids for sought after state school places.

The type of child that goes to private school will always be advantaged. They will have wealth, opportunity and are more likely to have educated and involved parents. All of these things are far more relevant to privilege than someone going to some middle tier private school. Their accent will be posh because they're from a posh family. They will be cultured because they go on expensive holidays and go to museums etc. The list is extensive. If anything I think that the government should encourage more people with the means to send their kids to private schools. This will free up places in schools in better areas and will save money that can be spent on disadvantaged kids.

Those schools, ime, pick and choose which SEN kids they intake.

One proclaimed ''inclusive'' mainstream school absolutely rejected my daughter.

Imo, if its about getting that funding into their schools, they should not be able to do so.

This is just a bullshit argument. Anyway, if privileged people will always be privileged, they won't mind paying a bit more for their kids' expensive education then. Their kids can pay them back when they get to be Prime Minister. In the meantime, just cut back a bit on those non-essentials like mobile phones and avocadoes and that VAT will pay for itself.

And if the poor just cut back on their sky subscriptions and fags they won’t need benefits either?

I mean for poor people, cutting back is so they can eat, not send their kids to Eton, but sure, it's the exact same thing.

It's not a bullshit argument. Privilege extends way beyond the financial. Anyone that has grown up without understands this.

The thing is that rich people aren't forced to use private schools. They have the right to use state education and are in the best position to afford houses in expensive catchments with great schools. They will make a decision on whether it is worth it for them to keep their kid in private schools v send them to a state school. If the 20% tips the scale for a reasonable number then the state is stuck with a large bill and some kids will lose out on places in good state schools. Nobody wins! The ex private school kids will still have the connections, invested parents and plummy accents they have always had. It's just now the state is funding their education which inevitably directs money away from poorer kids.

Whole thing sounds about as fiscally sound as Brexit's £350m a week for the NHS

Again, the question is why they should be exempt from VAT

You still haven’t understood the difference between input VAT (which private schools pay even now) and output VAT (which parents will have to pay under this policy).

Private schools don't offer net benefits for ordinary tax payers

For every child in private school, the taxpayer saves £8k a year. That’s a net benefit to the taxpayer.

I’m not trying to score points for the Conservatives. Pointing out the flaws of an ill thought out Labour policy does not automatically make me a Conservative campaigner.

Though the increase in funding of the NHS since Brexit is over twice that.

You’re not looking at the extra funding part. It won’t help if the amount in op move to state.

As a result of Brexit?

I’ve just checked the demographics of the town the state school we want is in and it is 97.7% white
So erm I guess that’s where we’ll be living then, glad my kids will finally mix with “real people”

I’m not an economist to untangle that mess.

The solution to this is to get rid of private schools and have a level playing field for all kids. And the 20% VAT isn't a problem for 'the rich', it's actually only a problem for the relatively few parents who actually do have to scrimp and save to send their kids to private school. The IFS (who are actually credible unlike half the right wing 'think tanks' scaremongering over this) say it'll affect less than 7% of kids in private school. Let's face it if you're well off enough to pay £16K a term to send your kid to Eton, another couple of grand is neither here nor there - as I am sure you and all the other poster making endless threads about this on MN are well aware. It won't affect the elite in the slightest. For those middle class parents who do have to put their kids into state school, it won't be a huge blow to the sector, which will be much better funded under Labour anyway. All this pearl-clutching about 'oh my god where will the money come from' is small state, ideological nonsense. Most people would be happy to pay more tax for public services that actually work for them and their kids.

In Sweden (very left wing country), every pupil has an allocated allowance. If the parents choose an independent school, this can be used towards subsidising the place.

as a pp has pointed out, the state encourages independent schools in some other countries. Parental choice and saving the tax payer money….

have a level playing field for all kids

How would you do this? We could start with Labour leaders not getting places in the most privileged state schools I suppose?

The reality is that not everyone is is going to put their house up for sale in a decent catchment area and so those kids won’t get in. The turnover of houses is not the quick especially in high value residential areas where schools are good. So these private school kids will have to rough it with everyone else. Any decent house in a decent catchment is snapped up ASAP.