To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

I think it’s the generalisation that bothers me. That all rich people are greedy and only got there by nepotism - some do but not all.

On the flip side, the generalisation that everyone who is poor is a paragon of virtue and down on their luck and they’ve all worked hard and got nowhere and it’s the fault of the rich. In some cases this is also true, but certainly not in all.

It’s just prejudice isn’t it?

I’m always amazed how many posters tell mothers who earn £0 over £100k due to 60% tax + loss of childcare support that they should just be happy and suck it up.

It’s totally irrational.

It’s a 100% tax rate, why would anyone accept that as being fair?

@FlayedAbout yep !

Different cultural values come into play though. My DH and I are in our early to mid 40s and are parents would never associate success with wealth it is more nuanced than that. My DH is wealthier than me and his Mum was a bit of a hippy, thou never mention money, you’re encouraged to think creatively, read, understand politics/philosophy, appreciate ‘good’ music. It was really crass to talk about money. It wasn’t particularly important so it definitely didn’t equal success.

People who deny the role luck plays are delusional or lying

To signal hard work over someone else's ( about which you can only guess ) always seems to be snooty and has an undercurrent of "I worked harder than you and that's why I have this and you don't "

I earn xxx because I work hard implies that if you worked that hard you also would have that

Try I have xxx because I work hard and had some lucky breaks and you might get a more favourable reception

Once you make an arrogant statement of superior hard working you will piss people off

our not ‘are’.

Yes to this, and not just unfair but somehow grubby.

And wrt immigrants achieving success - my own Irish relatives and schoolfriends, whose children were sent to the best schools their parents could find and afford for them, and who studied the education system to find out how it worked, how to apply to universities, etc., were aware of other parents at the school gates muttering about their "sharp elbows".

Let’s say the uncomfortable things…

Some in society would prefer to believe there are invisible forces at work which prevent them from succeeding when in reality they are not furthering themselves in any meaningful way, which let’s be honest is tough and requires sacrifice. Yes, you work a minimum pad job and have next to nothing at the end of the month. But are you saving what little you have and investing it into a business? Night classes?

@mathanxiety That is true for the aristocracy, not everyone else.
The aristocracy think those who inherit are somehow better. It is why Catherine Middleton's family were looked down on.

It's not a zero sum game.

People in the US are faking it, it's very rare you hear them saying anything negative

Because it’s crass and inconsiderate to shout about how great you are and what you’ve achieved. It’s rude and shows that you have

a) The emotional intelligence of a teaspoon and

b) An ego the size of the moon

It’s ok to moderately talk about your success in conversation, if someone else shares theirs with you and asks you about yours. But don’t overdo it otherwise people will think you’re a massive twat.

And you know this how?

Why should they volunteer negative information about their own lives or circumstances?

Edited to add: They're not faking it.

Publication Atlantic Aspirations: What does the US get for being a third richer than the UK?

I don’t think it’s the success: it’s the whingeing about how hard done by they are, when they clearly aren’t.

@YourPinkDog
There are plenty of middle class people who look down their noses at money, in particular money earned by people who haven't been to university - footballers, celebrities in various areas of the entertainment world, used car salesmen...

I earn xxx because I work hard implies that if you worked that hard you also would have that

No it doesn't. Deluded is thinking that everything someone else says is a dig / or judgement about you.

Well yes, this is basically what the OP suggests is part of a British culture.

The question is - why?

And why do British people hold this belief about Americans?

Lived in the US , people are ALWAYS cheery and positive to the point of being fake, over excited about everything, positive about everything, surely there should be a range of emotions in human beings.....

My cousins are American. They just seem like normal people.

Some in society would prefer to believe there are invisible forces at work which prevent them from succeeding when in reality they are not furthering themselves in any meaningful way, which let’s be honest is tough and requires sacrifice. Yes, you work a minimum pad job and have next to nothing at the end of the month. But are you saving what little you have and investing it into a business? Night classes?

I'm sorry but you're wrong.

Ive got top grades/degree etc. I didn't really work hard at all, i was extremely lucky it came easily to me and when i did slip up, had parents who paid for a private tutor.

I had family who steered me towards a career that pays well. I was aware of career paths that are lucrative due to growing up in a middle class home where relatives & family friends had well paid professional jobs. A family member secured me work experience that doubtless contributed to me getting that first foot on the ladder. The interviewer for my graduate job shared my hobby, (something my parents were able to fund me learning for years) and I'm sure getting on well with him helped me get that job.

I'm just an employee, I've never risked anything to build up a business or created anything and I don't work particularly long hours.

I definitely don't work any harder than your typical nurse or teacher. Yes I've made a choice to work in an occupation that happens to pay more - but actually we need the nurses and teachers far more than what I do, so we'd be fucked as a society if everyone selfishly tried to only choose the most lucrative careers.

I've "lived in the US" my whole life. Perhaps we're just not dour curmudgeons like the Brits.

xenophobia,

So you have a list of privilege that you stack in order of most privilege to least?

Private school may mean a private education, but what if the state school person has the other things listened on this thread? Innate intelligence and resilience, loving parents, lack of abuse, support, no bullying. What about sex and skin colour?

I can not stand relentless cheerfulness. Fine if you feel cheerful though.
I value authenticity.

Well you have your opinion , I have mine...it happens. Doesn't mean you or I have the absolute truth, I was staring my opinion but if you feel like you have to challenge me and get offended...that's fine, I am not born British btw 😜