The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

It's a moronic policy, as evidenced by all the army people saying it's a terrible idea for a start. Also, lots of 18 year olds work and/or have other commitments which the Tories have already said they won't be allowed exemptions for.

The thing that really showed the stupidity for me, though was the suggestion that those who volunteer will be working with the NHS, police or fire service. What possible use do you think they will be in any of those? Sullen 18 year olds forced to be there one weekend a month with no training? They'll be a liability that takes out useful staff who have to supervise them instead of doing their jobs.

Well then .. what is the point of it? If they're not ACTUALLY going to be doing anything. Maybe the tories would be better investing in apprenticeships and education? At least then they'd be doing something?

I don’t see the big deal, my school did community service, just checked with Dh and his did too

Thats schoolchildren, not working age adults with bills to pay, and every single person I know who volunteers does it at a time they can manage to fit around their paid work, caring responsibilities and hobbies, not at a government mandated time. They also tend to do things that they are good at and align with their interests such as national trust if interested in historic houses, football coach if good at football. They don’t just get slung at a fire station and get told to “give something back”. Nobody is against volunteering or community service per se (well some are and “compulsory volunteering” is just daft) but making people virtually unemployable in any industry that require weekend working and taking them away from community projects they already do is ridiculous. That’s before the logistical nightmare of what exactly these, largely untrained, 18yos are going to do on weekends in the NHS and police. Who is going to train them to be useful and how many weekends will it take to get them to be able to do things that are useful to the community. What is going to happen in small towns with large or multiple universities like Oxford or Bath when literally 1000s of 18yos all need a placement in September, by law?

Why aren’t you teaching your child those behaviours, as their parent?

Who knows? They want to send refugees on a plan to Rwanda. They give ferry contracts to companies with no ferries. I don't trust the Tories to get the slightest thing correct, and I'm sure many would happily send young people into burning buildings (and quite a lot worse if conscripted into the armed forces if a war breaks out - sending them to kill people and have their legs and arms blown off) if they and their mates could make money out of it.

Oh yeah, just a minute. I'll just set up a bogus company for them to run to build up their business skills. That what a good little Tory would do, after all.

Ofcourse we do, the point is they have the opportunity in a way that is not guided by their parents, it’s treating them independent young people.

When I did community service we were told to go find something by our schools, which we did. We had to go out and find somewhere that wanted us to help out. I’m happy for DD to have additional opportunities to do different things and through a government programme she would be more likely to be able to access organisations who are prepared for volunteers.

Why would I have a problem with that as a parent.

Did the younguns parents and grandparents do it as well in the decades before? I’m guessing yes. I’m all for it being reinstated here if everyone who missed on this great opportunity does it as well. I really should have better knowledge of what to do if there is a fire. I also got my fees paid when I did my degree in addition to a grant and didn’t have to work
while at uni unlike my DD who has worked all the way through her final year at school (plus volunteering aged 12-16) so i think I’m due to give a bit more back than she is.

Think that’s unfair. Volunteering does give kids exposure to people and situations which even the most conscientious parent can’t provide. Mine have benefitted enormously from it.

Most 18 year olds would have jobs 3 weekends out of 4, especially if they are studying. How happy are employers going to be to employ 18 year olds that they have to give a weekend off every month?

National service does not have to mean 'going in the army'!

and I'm sure many would happily send young people into burning buildings (and quite a lot worse if conscripted into the armed forces if a war breaks out - sending them to kill people and have their legs and arms blown off)

My comparison to Luxembourg is that young people are taught how to use extinguishers and put out minor fires. They have a great time. Not go into burning buildings and drag out dead people… Please stop catastrophising it’s really unhealthy.

Also they won’t get elected.

Just mad!

Also the thing with the fire department, wouldn’t it be great if our population had a more generalised idea of what to do in disaster situations. Like flooding or if someone is trapped under rubble etc.

I don’t get it, week after week high rate tax payers are slated for being selfish because they complain they don’t have any spare money left. People tell them to stop whinging and get on with it. Mention able bodied teenagers volunteering for a few weeks and people are horrified.

Either you live in a society where people have an attitude that we should all contribute, whether thats through money or time etc or you think only some people should contribute but not you or yours. It’s not about the government it’s about what kind of society you want to live in.

See perfectly sensible stuff.

My dd is 14 and has already been volunteering weekly for over a year. She also plays sport Saturday and Sunday and has a job. At 18 I’ll be wanting her to concentrate on her exams and uni. Why only 18 year olds? All the people for it on here can do it.

Why are people comparing to other Euro countries, they are much more supportive & invested in the younger generations.. The UK isn’t and many people think the youths need to be taught a lesson for whatever reason.

It's a stupid policy that has clearly not been thought through and doesn't have much rationale behind it.

And it is a serious thing to make a law forcing citizens into either military service or prescribed volunteering. That is an infringement of people's freedoms. I would have to hear a very strong argument for its necessity.

None of that means i don't care about or contribute to my community or country.

Yeah they are supportive by giving them opportunities to do stuff, it’s part of the ethos of saying “you are part of society, do your bit” not stand around complaining that no-one is doing enough for YOU. Maybe its part of how they inculcate the ethos into their population.

So what is essentially will mean is that 18 year olds university students will be unemployable, so only the rich will be able to go to university at all.

Also the thing with the fire department, wouldn’t it be great if our population had a more generalised idea of what to do in disaster situations. Like flooding or if someone is trapped under rubble etc.

I agree it’s sensible.

Either you live in a society where people have an attitude that we should all contribute, whether thats through money or time etc or you think only some people should contribute but not you or yours. It’s not about the government it’s about what kind of society you want to live in.

But younger people have been shafted, that’s the issue I have. Suffer wage stagnation, spend all your money on rent or a 30 yr mortgage, maybe don’t have a dc cause you can’t afford one, retire later but remember you are just as valuable as everyone else and give some back to your country. It’s doesn’t square for me.

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous

Yes. Nobody owes the State anything and I am fundamentally opposed to the whole notion of it.

The only people who aren't ridiculous, are Ukraine, for obvious reasons.

Yep bollocks.

The poster doesn't know how trade unions work.

When I was at school we did it during set free period afternoons one day a week, we all went to our respective volunteer opportunities. It was literally a few hours a week during the weekdays.

I think I’d prefer the tories to come up with some practical ideas to sort out the NHS and education rather than announce shambolic plans that may well disengage young people even more from society.

I’m not against NS, but surely in order for it to work they need to make sure young people are better supported in other areas of life, like other countries do, before asking more of them. Sort out the mental health crisis, housing costs crisis, NHS crisis.