The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

No, but I doubt they could do anything useful or learn anything useful. They would just be talking time away from NHS staff who are already overstretched.

Soldiers are targets for terrorism. Lee Rigby ring a bell? If people sign up for the Army, and I’m very grateful they do, then they know the risks. But I’m not happy about 18-year-olds being jollied along into it.

Why are you so entitled to that you expect this one specific group to, not only “serve the wider community”, compelled by law, in a way that you don’t, but to not even allow them to do it in their time off?

The way how it works in some European countries is that it takes place gradually for everybody. National Service is military there and not just...volunteering, soft version and all generations went through it.

Some countries also have a so called reserve and they call them for excercises every few years.

In what Europen countries does everyone do military service at the exact age of 18 with no exceptions and no deferrals?

Who the hell wants to give up their weekends to supervise a bunch of eighteen year olds who don’t want to be there?

And how many of those countries are giving those teenagers back a free/reasonably priced higher education, functioning health service, housing and plus benefiting them from prior years of schooling in buildings that weren’t falling down!

It has achieved the Tories’ aim by wasting everyone’s time discussing something that will never happen anyway.

Here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5083814-the-reaction-to-national-service-on-here?reply=135609340&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share 

As for the age it is a bit later 20-21 yrs old. But they do military training with excercises not volunteering or cybercrime ans engineering. Full blast preparation for battle fields

None whole package

I have no doubt they would learn something useful. But as I said, I would include it as a part of school curiculum for few years starting from first aid course etc

Yes, children should be taught first aid. My children were (at school) but it isn't something they would learn by volunteering in the NHS for a weekend. What do you think they would learn by volunteering at the weekend that would be useful?

As I mention I do not subscribe to the idea of national service in this format. I would do it while they are at school with some theory, excercises and then volunteering. Just as I did at school.
They can learn how the work in hospitals look like, how to help carrying a patient, how to listen by completing a form with patient, by bringing water, moping the floor etc- many things as people learn as voluteering at any age. We learn anywhere we are.
I do believe that we live in times when part of the society lives in a bauble and is unprepared for what is coming.

The age isn't just a "bit later". I can't see any country that forces 18 or even 21 year olds to do national service. In all people can defer so it doesn't negatively effect their education or other responsibilities. The only reason Sunak is picking on 18 years olds is because the people effected can't vote against him. The people who think it a good idea won't have to do it.

Austria ages are 18 and 35
Switzerland 18 and 25
Norway 19 to 44
Denmark no upper age limit if physically fit
Greece 19 to 45

They aren't going to learn anything by moping floors or "bringing water" in hospital. Most patients are quite capable of filling in their own forms and if they do need help it should be done by someone who is employed by the NHS and has been properly vetted etc. There is no way it would be appropriate for 18 years olds who aren't genuine volunteers to have access to confidential medical information.

I think the aim of the policy is possibly to pit generations against each other.

It isn't a policy. It's a slogan. Just like the 100,000 "skilled" apprenticeships this morning: another headline with absolutely zero detail. The aim is to shut down debate on what the Conservatives have achieved/destroyed over the past 14 years and shift the conversation onto wish-lists of things that nobody has any clear proposals for but that certain sections of the electorate like to hear.

I was going to ask as a permanent patient and even some who can't speak for themselves at some times . Who are they going accept permission from .Maybe at times I don't want at times to have an undertrained young person when they are short staffed looking after me . Will they bother to try seek permission or is it gonna be case a case of she can''t give her permission anyway .

ETA some spelling .

@wombat15 the age you listed is for so called reserve and absolutely not for conscription. https://www.forces.net/world/which-countries-still-have-conscription

wombat, but honestly, if it takes place and unfortunately Tories win we will discover more details of this plan. I think there is no reason to speculate about a service that may not even happen in such form and shape.

However, I am pretty sure that Labour will also start preparing the society to the dark times that is war with Russia. I hope they will start from building and renovating bunkers and shelters and strengthening air defence system beyond the current SABR.

@Persimonne72 that is total scaremongering. MN should not allow comments like yours.

Specify what is scaremongering ?

Do you read news at all? I am amazed how detached from reality are some people in this country

Many countries on the continent are renovating and building shelters just as we speak

Dare to click to learn what is happening:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/sep/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-nato-chief-warns-of-no-swift-end-to-war-russian-missiles-hit-agricultural-facility-in-odesa
https://metro.co.uk/2024/01/19/conscription-warning-nato-braces-all-war-russia-20139749/
POLITICO.eu
British public should be ready to fight Putin, UK army chief says
People in Britain should be ready to serve in the military in the event of a war with Russia, the head of the British army has warned.
.
24 Jan 2024

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2024/05/29/gayw-m29.html

Aren't chemists businesses in the UK? So the much touted 'delivering prescriptions' isn't national service at all. It's indetured servitude for the benefit of private enterprise. Illegal under Article 4 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

@Persimonne72 scaremongering.
Russia is wanting to expand and wage war on countries it borders. That is why they are increasing their defences. The first step on that expansion was Ukraine. That is why the west are supporting Ukraine with arms. Ukraine has exposed that Russia is not as well equipped militarily as everyone assumed they were.

Bunkers and shelters aren't going to help in a nuclear war. I agree that air defence systems need strengthening but that won't be achieved by taking resources away from the military to "train" 18 year olds for one year. The reason national service was stopped in the 1960s was because the money could be more usefully spent on weapons.

National Service made sense when we were at war in France and Europe, and were at risk of a British invasion. That was 80 years ago.

There is no way pharmacists are going to give medicines to unpaid 18 years olds who have been forced to "volunteer", especially if they don't drive. Even if they do drive, companies won't want to pay for the insurance.