The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

Iaskedyouthrice · Today 11:40
I think we should all be made to do it. You can guarantee the ones shouting the loudest about idle teens have contributed the square root of fuck all themselves. It's a certain type isn't it?
Anyone in decent health under 65 and disabilities taken into account when doling out the different volunteer roles. There we go”

A very sensible suggestion. Interesting that on another thread, someone has suggested similar. Quite a lot of offended older people not taking at all kindly to the idea. Funny, that.

Also, I'm sure it's been said but you know all kids circumstances are different yes? My eldest had to get a weekend job at 16 and my youngest will. They aren't all born to parents able to fund all their wants. Not all teens are lazy. Just the ones who are allowed to be.

I can imagine @MrsSkylerWhite not surprising.

Such entitled snowflakes.

If you believe 'very few' would be doing it in the military, you are delusional and have no idea that National Service LITERALLY means serving in the armed forces. That is what it LITERALLY MEANS. That's the entire point of it! They're not going to be baking cupcakes for the elderly! They will LITERALLY be serving in the armed forces.

National Service is peacetime conscription. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/what-was-national-service

No they will literally not.

There are approx 750,000 18 year olds in the UK.

The number of places available for the military option of National Service will be approx 30,000. These will be allocated by a selection process. This is the only paid option.

If the government were serious about using NS or compulsory volunteering compulsory for 18 year old NEETs, they would have proposed it a long time ago, and engaged in consultation with relevant agencies to see if it was viable or was likely to be effective.

This proposal has been announced six weeks before the general election, with no real thought of how it will be financed or whether it is likely to have any long term benefits.

It is just another desperate appeal for votes or publicity before the election.

This, followed by the triple pension lock announcement shortly afterwards smacks of desperation/bribery.

What would be helpful on this thread is a sign to say if we are someone who is actually contributing that level of voluntary service, cos quite frankly, if you are not doing it yourself you have no moral grounds to impose it on others.

Here's my suggestions.

⏲ If you currently do this amount of official voluntary service yourself, mark your post with a clock, from the emojis menu marked with a lightbulb

⌛If you did that amount of official voluntary service as an 18 year old for at least a year, mark your post with a sand timer - from the same menu

My prediction is that almost everyone will wanting this imposed will not be able to honestly mark their post, ( although I would expect half of marked posts to be dishonest, this being mumsnet.....)

⏳⏲

Is there a marker for did that level of voluntary service but as a 30 year old? 😏

make up your own if you want, but I left out all other permutations, as doing it at a different time when it was convenient is not quite the same as doing it at 18 - which is being discussed, or doing it now, which is the people discussing it, and who know what the current situation is, and I wanted to keep it simple. Presumably most people have done some, at some stage.

⌛⏲

I’m so sick of the notion that all young people are ‘selfish’ and ‘entitled’ and ‘snowflakes’. It smacks of adultism (not to mention hypocrisy!)

Young people have had a shitty deal for many years now under the Tory government. The economy has gone to shit. They have zero hope of being home owners until maybe their 30s (if they’re lucky). The education system is underfunded and highly pressured and ‘one size fits all’. They were called Granny killers during the pandemic. They’ve inherited a climate crisis. Inequality has become bigger than ever.

This is a quote from Barnardo’s;

“Children are constantly being bombarded with news of the challenges they face – from worsening inequality and environmental concerns to health worries and an out-of-control housing market,” said Perry. “None of this is of their making but it’s just not right that children are left to dread the years ahead instead of feeling excited about their future. We know that to be especially true for children from disadvantaged backgrounds.”

We should be making life better for our young people not worse!

Exactly this!!!!

What is stopping you from encouraging your daughters into volunteering even without this scheme?

Right @ColdToezzz !

I’m truly shocked at how many people on here have been sucked in by this notion. Especially on a parenting forum! Not much deep thinking going on about how life today truly is for our young people.

I work with a lot of people this age and whilst a lot have their heads on straight and can be left to do a job on their own, there is a fair percentage who have managers constantly chasing them to do work and not skive off in the toilet or go missing in the building. And that is in a quite decently paid job

I just wonder how these sort of people will be when they aren’t actually getting paid

You are slightly wrong by comparing it to military service as some European countries had/will have.

The proposed By Sunak service for 18 years old is mostly community service and not military as in European countries is. Nobody will be crawling in mud with the helmet and rifle in hand under the spiky wire as they do in Europe where there is compulsory military service.
Even the 30k is for nerdy specialists who will support cybersecurity, engineering etc. Still nothing like military service in some European countries.

UK is an island and doesn't need refined land defence. It needs RAF and NAVY professional specialists and people who will support community service ( and that what Sunak just announced).

A lot of countries have well run NS schemes but we have a Govt that has a long history of giving contracts to their mates. So I'm sceptical. I also think its insane they want to fine parents of 18 year olds who don't comply.

The UK needs fruit pickers and because Brexit fucked up their system of paying people from other countries low wages for doing boring physical work, they need another plan. It also nicely fudges unemployment figures for 18 year olds.

Yes, that part really does suggest they are living in lala land and hadn't consulated anyone before coming up with the ridiculous idea. Since when are parents held responsible for the conduct of adult children in the UK?

Honestly, everything depends on perspective. After second world war people had food rationed, beans on toast was a luxury food and apart from few in their 20ties and 30ties even dreamt about owning a house. The mortgage rates in 60-70-ties and 80-ties were huge, much larger than now.

National service for young men? Great idea; the young boys of today have no idea how to be a proper man.

For women? Nope. Not appropriate.

Rents were low in the 60 and 70s and there were plenty of council houses.

I think it’s tough. I was really busy at 18 - started an intense uni course, worked all hours I could just to survive. NS would have taken away time I really needed to earn money. I was really driven and wanted to get going with my life. I had limited financial help and had to completely rely on myself and my time.

My sibling, on the other hand, I think would have really benefited from NS. They were and still are (to a degree) lost in life. Made bad choices and partied all hours of every weekend, which is normal but ended up getting involved with drugs. Have had long periods of time without a job. I just think implementing a routine at that point would have been helpful for their mental health and sense of being.

but I know it can’t be done case by case…