The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

I so remember when my husband was served at lunch times and break times by wrvs and my husband loved them but then again these were all run by volunteers but we can't keep relying on them .Those women knew what they signed up for but we can't keep relying on these volunteers to keep signing on for this .

I don't think the military in the UK are deeply naive regarding the best way to defend the UK. They think it is a terrible idea and they will know more than you or rishi sunak. Our needs are different to countries that are next door to Russia. National Service in the uk was abolished in the 1960s as for the UK large armies were seen as less effective than weapons. Do you think that has changed?

I also can't see any other country where military service is only for 18 years and must be done that year with no exceptions.

Very prescient.

There's Eritrea. Definitely a model to emulate there!

Well said @Zwicky.

When I went to uni in 1997 (thanks to Blair!), I was able to have a bursary and a loan as a child of parents who lived solely on benefits. I still had paid employment to live. At one point I was teaching in the day and working in a pub evenings and weekends. Every spare hour I had, I used for paid employment. I don’t how I would have survived if I had to do unpaid work.

This will require money spent on it and that money could be better spent elsewhere.

"If I was asked to contribute in some way I would."

And if you were told?

@UnimaginableWindBird
I don't think it's ok to place a burden on an 18 year old that I wouldn't be prepared to carry myself.

Absolutely spot on. Why only 18 year olds? My husband is 65, I’m 60. We have never been required to “volunteer”, like most people on this thread, I suspect. Very easy to expect others to do so.

Yes, it won't just have a negative impact on 18 year olds. It will cost money which could be better spent elsewhere. No doubt somebody dodgy will be given a contract to organise it though and they will be laughing all the way to the bank.

From speaking to others over the last hour about this, including one who currently serves, it seems only smart alecs who have never served a day in uniform thinks it's a 'good' idea. Anyone who has served or is serving shudders and thinks it's the worst idea ever, and the most dangerous one. It's an ignorant idea from those who consider themselves 'hard' but have no fucking idea that all it does is put serving members lives in danger and civilians lives in danger. It's a recipe for disaster.

Apart from very few would doing it in the military 🙄 read the articles

And they certainly wouldn’t be front line troops, I’m amazed you’re all jumping to such wild conclusions without any evidence at all!

SoreAndTired1 · Today 11:20
From speaking to others over the last hour about this, including one who currently serves, it seems only smart alecs who have never served a day in uniform thinks it's a 'good' idea. Anyone who has served or is serving shudders and thinks it's the worst idea ever, and the most dangerous one. It's an ignorant idea from those who consider themselves 'hard' but have no fucking idea that all it does is put serving members lives in danger and civilians lives in danger. It's a recipe for disaster”

Yep, step father ex-military, completely agrees. As does Lord Dannat. I think I’ll take their opinions over Sunak’s.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · Today 11:25
And they certainly wouldn’t be front line troops, I’m amazed you’re all jumping to such wild conclusions without any evidence at all”

So Lord Dannat is jumping to wild conclusions? How is it that you are so more clued up about this scheme than he is?

At the very least, it will divert funds from an already struggling professional military.

Do you honestly believe they would send teenagers to the front line??? Most of them wouldn’t even be doing their NS ‘in the military’. The responses here are nuts, from people who haven’t even read the article but want to jump in with their second hand ‘military experience’

Is Lord Dannat implementing the scheme? He’s arguing against something that isn’t even real!

Most people seem to be ignoring this rather important fact.

Do you honestly believe they would send teenagers to the front line?”

You do realise that teenagers are already junior officers? Good friends’ son recently passed out from Sandhurst before his 20th birthday. Very bright lad, a year ahead in school. Going into intelligence, will be making life and death decisions. Pretty much frontline, wouldn’t you say.

Note that the people who work in organisations with volunteers also think it's a terrible idea.

But you seem to think you know better.

They did do it in the first world war which wasn't that long ago. I wouldn't put anything past the Tories.

Safe to say the people who support the proposals don't realise anything much about either the military or voluntary sector. It's Dunning Kruger writ large.

WoshPank · Today 11:33
MaryMaryVeryContrary · Today 11:25

Apart from very few would doing it in the military 🙄 read the articles
Show quote history
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Note that the people who work in organisations with volunteers also think it's a terrible idea.
**
But you seem to think you know better.”

@WoshPank : I imagine Mary has had just about enough of experts 🙄

😅

I think we should all be made to do it. You can guarantee the ones shouting the loudest about idle teens have contributed the square root of fuck all themselves. It's a certain type isn't it?
Anyone in decent health under 65 and disabilities taken into account when doling out the different volunteer roles. There we go.

I'm all for encouraging young people to contribute to the community but am dead set against this for many reasons. I have been a volunteer myself in the past but was able to fit in at various points in my life. I've also worked with young people.

Assuming the plans as outlined in yesterdays Telegraph is correct there will be

No exceptions or deferments for university students with or without weekend jobs/commitments.

No exceptions or deferments for those who are employed full time except possibly those employed in the NHS or prison service but with the presumption still that "all will serve"

No exceptions or deferments for those with caring responsibilities.

No exceptions or deferments for those on a gap year abroad, they will have to return to do their service

Other countries allow deferral so you can do your national service once yo have finished your education or they make provision for elite athletes/musicians etc. My daughter told me one country separates elite athletes and provides sports coaching during their national service.

Aged 18 my daughter was training for a career at college alongside working part time evenings and weekends and being a young carer for a family member with dementia, offering much needed respite for that person's spouse.

Aged 18 my son was at college, working part time as a musician gigging at weekends alongside being involved in youth theatre, a registered charity that helped him a lot when he was younger. The summer he left college age 18 he single handedly organised a fundraising concert, oh, and also spend a lot of the summer with NYMT, another registered charity. His first year at uni was funded by him being a gigging musician and playing piano for community theatre groups.

He has friends who were working alongside studying to help pay towards their families, one had a disabled sibling, another had a parent with health issues who couldn't work more than part time. These kids need more help, not kicking when they are down. They are dong their best to give themselves a future through work and education.

If some kind of scheme was organised for 6th form/college students as part of their course of studies or more was done about those between the age of 16-18 who are not in employment, education or training I would be all in favour. But it isn't. No-one cares about them. They are wanting to hit young people at the exact time when they need it the least.