The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

I thought he was going to sack his election team as his policies are soo desperate and badly thought out.

I'm surprised he hasn't gone back to blaming the Vietnamese for "illegal" immigration.

Well, how does any country implement it? You’re being silly acting like it’s some kind of really radical idea when a handful of European countries already do it.

There are many benefits which have been discussed on this thread. If you’re going to do a cats bum mouth at all of them because you’re doggedly anti anything that the Tories suggest then you’re not up to this discussion.

We have one of the lowest pensions in Europe and one day you will be grateful for it too as will the young people you refer to. It's not a race to the bottom and drag everyone down with it. There are plenty of other groups of people who grt shafted too as you call it bit they don't moan about it

Yeah Rishi can fuck off

But the wealthiest pensioners thanks to gains in property and private pensions. Anyhow let’s not derail.

100% this . 18 year olds would be no good as drivers for delivering prescriptions etc . There is a reason most driving jobs are for over 21 or you must have so many years driving before they will consider you. The cost of adding delivering onto a new drivers insurance would be ££££. Who would cover this the Government I don’t think so. It’s a non starter

The excuses are just getting silly now! What next, they can’t wash up because of eczema?

Why is that a stupid excuse?

Pharmacies don't need random young people to do deliveries for them. They pay people to do it.

Hospitals don't need random young people to act as guides. They have enough OAP volunteers and 16-18 year olds in secondary school/college.

The various countries you mention have well thought-out schemes that were (and are) designed to meet specific needs.

The Tory plan is a cheap electoral gimmick (and called such by a former Chief of the Defence Staff) intended to do nothing more than stop a few Daily Express reading Tory voters defecting to Reform.

It is beneath contempt.

It's about state pension not being taxed thats what he is doing, raising the threshold at which pensioners pay tax. The state pension should never be high enough you have to pay tax on it...you already paid tax on your salary aka NI. He is right on this one.

If you end up paying tax on state pension because the state pension is more than current tax free threshold than you are penalising those who aren't wealthy. I cant believe anyone would think is right thing to do.

I don’t think many people have actually read the plan. It’s not national service for all 18 year olds.

“The proposed new scheme would not be conscription, where people are legally required to join the armed forces for a period.

But it would compel people by law to complete a community programme over a 12-month period, or enrol in a year-long military training scheme, when they turn 18.
The name is taken from the mandatory military training British men aged 17-21 had to undertake between 1949 and 1960.
Then, national service meant 18 months of military training and spending four years on a reserve list, meaning they could be called up to fight at short notice.
The scheme being proposed now would not force anyone to do military training, Home Secretary James Cleverly told the BBC.
It would be made up of two broad streams for 18-year-olds to choose from:

• Community volunteering: Spending one weekend every month - which equates to 25 days over a 12-month period - volunteering with organisations such as the NHS, fire service, ambulance, search and rescue, and critical local infrastructure
• Military training: Applying for one of up to 30,000 “selective” military placements reserved for teenagers deemed the “brightest and the best” in areas like logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations over a year-long period

The vast majority of 18-year-olds would not take part in any military training at all.”

And obviously there would be exceptions for those who cannot for whatever reason. 25 days volunteering won’t really harm anyone will it!

I think your mind instantly goes to youngsters being conscripted for war when they talk of NS.

The youngsters need to get something positive from it if it is going to work, especially if the youngsters are already in education or working to try to put money towards housing etc. Why and how will it benefit them? Education? Experience? Money? Job opportunities?

There will be no pensions by the time my cohort reach age of retirement. There’s nothing for us to be grateful for.

Keep up this bullshit generational theft and the youth will stop ‘moaning’ and start just taking. Some redistribution of wealth will be a lot less painful than literal riots.

If you think being properly insured to drive your car doing deliveries is silly I don’t know what to say to you. It’s expensive enough to insure a new driver at 18 adding deliveries on to your insurance policy will be astronomical. If any insurance companies would even cover you for it . Will the government pay this ?

The difference is that they are volunteering to do fire service it isn't compulsory. Many people do voluntary work or help.in the community here too. The main difference is that if you choose to do it it is because you want to or you have a personal reason or it will look good on CV, gain you skills etc. if you are made to do something it may not be the thing you would opt for or that would benefit you.
I would volunteer to sit, chat, paint the nails etc at old.people home (I have the skills needed for this), as a teen I wouldnt have been good at this and likely wouldn't have gained skills but a different sector may have benefited me.
My eldest wouldn't cope with anything linked to money, or telling the time or following instructions (failed by school), awful anxiety so really limit what they could do..but they would.be great in an animal environment ie dog shelter, riding stables providing they were given the support they need and not given tasks beyond them

But seeing as my child hasn't been denied the support they require to manage school work I highly doubt any scheme of NS will provide the support to enable young people.with additional needs to participate.

I get it, the big problem is housing, it’s not easy for young people. But this won’t make their lives any worse, it may add something which is hard to put into monetary terms. There are loads of things we do which don’t make our material circumstances any better but still enrich our lives and those of the people around us.

Can you explain exactly how this won’t make my student dcs lives worse when close to 100% of their working hours are in weekends and they would lose 25% of their income every month? At best. It’s more likely to make them completely unemployable. Employers are not going to want to deal with that level of absence. Would your life not be any worse with a 25% drop in income? They study during the week (and volunteer, ironically), they need weekends to work. It will also negatively affect the lives of anyone who does a hobby, or sports at the weekend, including those who coach kids sports.

idk why people are comparing this to DofE. It’s different in many ways

It’s not volunteering in an area you are interested in, already do or are good at

It’s not at a time that corresponds with when the activity is on. You couldn’t be a volunteer coach at karate, if karate is a Tuesday evening. You couldn’t use guides or scouts if they meet on Thursdays.

You wouldn’t be able to do either of those things anyway, you have to do the mystery jobs in NHS, fire, police, rescue, critical infrastructure (which is litter picking I think), and it has to be 2 whole weekend days. It’s not coaching kids football, it’s not cat shelters, it’s not doing old ladies shopping, its not doing deliveries, it’s not on your days off or the afternoon you don’t have lectures, and it doesn’t fit around your childcare. It’s when the government says and it’s what the government says. Want to volunteer with riding for the disabled? Tough shit, you’ll have to ditch that, you’ve got 16 hours on how to use a fire extinguisher. Training for the commonwealth games? Not anymore, you have to stand in the entrance of A&E directing people to the reception desk 90cm away. Work in a care home? You’ll need 2 days unpaid leave a month to litter pick in a park 3 buses away.

It's not generational theft. People already paid their taxes via NI in returnd for a state pension after accurinf 36yrs of NI tax, that state pension shouldn't therefore be taxed again. It's a double tax and will affect the poorest who aren't able to build up private pensions.

You don't know if the state pension will disappear that is your assumption and and you have benefited from those working and paying taxes now to pay for your state education and your health care needs up to the point you start paying tax yourself. Not to mention any childcare subsidy and in some parts free travel and the list can go on. Surely that is something to be grateful for because fro. The day you are born to the day to the day before you start paying taxes you are a reciecee not a contributor

Many of the older generation never worked. My MIL was briefly a nurse but became a SAHM when she had the first of her children....in 1972. She never worked again. I adore her but why should she be able to send other people's children out to be cannon fodder?

But they aren't being sent out to be cannon fodder it's not mandated they will go into the military! They can choose to either a yr with the military ( if they are selected) or 25 days in public sector. At the very least understand what it is first before jumping to the wrong conclusions

Look, dead cat.

Lol at believing that, tbh. It's like believing Labour will stop at only rising VAT on private education, when the natural step will be to rise VAT on private health care.

The point is why on Earth should today's 18 year olds be conscripted into doing something that nobody has had to do since 1960, especially at a time when they are quite possibly busier than ever?

It is. But they've already benefited so much. I would rather see compulsory volunteering for pensioners than young people.

Immediately

Where's your evidence for the many who never worked? Oh, your MIL.

And how is she sending out other people's children to be cannon fodder - a completer misreading of a fucking stupid "policy" statement?