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Original poster

The reaction to National Service on here

793 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 27/05/2024 19:01

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

OP posts:
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Marjoriefrobisher · 27/05/2024 19:03

I don’t think framing it as punishment/remedy for being « pampered » is helpful. I do think if approached on the basis of public service/ chance for young people to get skills and experience there might be the germ of a good idea here.

LlynTegid · 27/05/2024 19:04

I think the reaction is as much to do with the nature of the planned National Service, not being thought through one bit as to the detail.

Or the reality of the life of 18 year olds many of whom work part-time at weekends to help fund their studies.

Like the OP though I reject comparisons with Nazi Germany. The Nazis were meticulous at planning their evil deeds.

Sahara123 · 27/05/2024 19:04

I completely agree. Lots of people are only seeing National Service and are in an uproar.

Betterifido · 27/05/2024 19:04

I just think it’s silly and wouldn’t work for lots. So I think the age is 18? My DD is only 6 but she has a hobby she does that is every weekend with other commitments about twice a year. She may well still be doing that when 18 so would she have to not do something she enjoys to do this? Also lots of 18 year olds are at school still doing a levels so when will they do it! At weekends! They are old enough to sort their own free time - if people want to volunteer they can choose when they do it surely?! Just no, I’d be cross if I had kids that age being forced into it.

Marjoriefrobisher · 27/05/2024 19:05

I also think the idea of service to one’s country is anathema to some people. Ones country exists to serve you, not the other way round. This isn’t Attleés Britain any more. And that probably is a loss.

Original poster
MaryMaryVeryContrary · 27/05/2024 19:05

Betterifido · 27/05/2024 19:04

I just think it’s silly and wouldn’t work for lots. So I think the age is 18? My DD is only 6 but she has a hobby she does that is every weekend with other commitments about twice a year. She may well still be doing that when 18 so would she have to not do something she enjoys to do this? Also lots of 18 year olds are at school still doing a levels so when will they do it! At weekends! They are old enough to sort their own free time - if people want to volunteer they can choose when they do it surely?! Just no, I’d be cross if I had kids that age being forced into it.

She would do the hobby 3 weekends out of 4 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP posts:
JenniferBooth · 27/05/2024 19:05

Youngsters here dont have a hope of housing. Whats it like in Scandanavia OP? ,<head tilt>

Pepsiisbetterthancoke · 27/05/2024 19:06

But are those children in other countries as unique and special as the ones here 🙄

Seriously though I agree that the reaction is ridiculous because a) it is not conscription and b) it will never happen anyway

stepfordblanket · 27/05/2024 19:07

They also have better social systems and free uni. Not a fair comparison.

As usual it’s teens/young people being punished. I’m a bit older but between us we’ve been carrying the burden for paying for austerity for 15 fucking years now, and now we’re expecting kids to do unpaid labour on top of that? Fuck the fuck off.

Hedgeoffressian · 27/05/2024 19:07

It’s because it’s a proposal from the Tories. Had it been Labour they would all be saying what a great idea it is 🙄

JenniferBooth · 27/05/2024 19:08

Hedgeoffressian · 27/05/2024 19:07

It’s because it’s a proposal from the Tories. Had it been Labour they would all be saying what a great idea it is 🙄

Bullshit. Labours New Deal was a form of workfare too.

coupdetonnerre · 27/05/2024 19:08

I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it should be for people without full time jobs or full time study leading to employment.

cannonballz · 27/05/2024 19:08

The reality of the Scandinavian national service, knowing friends who have had to send their children, is that it is partly to discourage Putin - in other words, lining up their young people to defend their country, with their lives if necessary.

They think we are stark staring bonkers to be considering this when for them it is a brutal necessity, and for us would be a political choice

Allthecatseverywhereallatonce · 27/05/2024 19:09

stepfordblanket · 27/05/2024 19:07

They also have better social systems and free uni. Not a fair comparison.

As usual it’s teens/young people being punished. I’m a bit older but between us we’ve been carrying the burden for paying for austerity for 15 fucking years now, and now we’re expecting kids to do unpaid labour on top of that? Fuck the fuck off.

Well said.

audweb · 27/05/2024 19:09

At 18 I was travelling, volunteering abroad and then studying and working in a care home. I’m sure plenty of 18 years are similar. Why should I have had to give up weekends for “volunteering”? It’s a ridiculous notion.

or imagine you finally make it to uni but you need to work every weekend just to make ends meet. Except you can’t as you have to take one weekend off every week which impacts the money you bring in, and makes uni almost impossible.

why would we do this to our young people?

but it’s done what the tories wanted, distract us from their incompetence and get us all talking about something else.

Marjoriefrobisher · 27/05/2024 19:10

stepfordblanket · 27/05/2024 19:07

They also have better social systems and free uni. Not a fair comparison.

As usual it’s teens/young people being punished. I’m a bit older but between us we’ve been carrying the burden for paying for austerity for 15 fucking years now, and now we’re expecting kids to do unpaid labour on top of that? Fuck the fuck off.

This is how the country has changed since Attlee introduced national service post -war. We owe the country and each other nothing. The state owes us.
‘I’m not saying it’s wrong. We pay a lot of tax and young people aren’t getting much out of that. The social contract isn’t really working for them. It’s the old who get the benefit of the modern welfare state.

Original poster
MaryMaryVeryContrary · 27/05/2024 19:10

Why should I have had to give up weekends for “volunteering”?

Why should anyone ‘have’ to do anything?

OP posts:
Marianus · 27/05/2024 19:10

So what would someone like my 18yo niece do? She has a baby and works weekends because her parents can’t look after the child. What is she supposed to do?

Original poster
MaryMaryVeryContrary · 27/05/2024 19:11

Hedgeoffressian · 27/05/2024 19:07

It’s because it’s a proposal from the Tories. Had it been Labour they would all be saying what a great idea it is 🙄

Haha, I suspect so

OP posts:
Betterifido · 27/05/2024 19:11

@MaryMaryVeryContrary but come on, it’s once a month which is quite a lot, and changes are she’ll be busy all week at school doing a levels, as PP mentioned lots have a part time job. I think it’s too big a commitment time wise to something that’s they haven’t chosen to do. She may well do some volunteering but on her own terms 🤷‍♀️

Marianus · 27/05/2024 19:11

And at what point does it become forced labour?

Zanatdy · 27/05/2024 19:11

Agree, I think it would do mg shy 16yr old Dd the world of good. She would hardly be going to the trenches. I’m never going to vote Tory but the reaction is ridiculous.

Stephy1886 · 27/05/2024 19:11

Tory chomper

Original poster
MaryMaryVeryContrary · 27/05/2024 19:12

Marianus · 27/05/2024 19:11

And at what point does it become forced labour?

Is it forced labour paying for other people’s benefits?

OP posts:
coupdetonnerre · 27/05/2024 19:12

Marianus · 27/05/2024 19:10

So what would someone like my 18yo niece do? She has a baby and works weekends because her parents can’t look after the child. What is she supposed to do?

Where's the father? One of them does service for a couple of years then the other 2 years later.
Why doesn't she work weekdays - who looks after the child financially? Does the father pay maintenance? Why isn't the baby at nursery?