The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

The problem is that no-one believes the government have either the intention of actually doing it, or the ability to do anything of the slightest use.

Yeah, this too.

In fact, I suspect it's the dead cat story. The thing thrown out there so that's what journalists ask them about rather than asking them about 14 years of failure that it is impossible to defend...

Teens and young people gave up a lot to "protect the NHS" But looks like it still wasnt enough

The other countries I looked at all gave a time frame eg 18-25 rather than 18 specifically. They all suggested there were exceptions. They also, on the whole, had far better deal for students like no or very low tuition fees and even grants, so the need for part time work was less. I admit to only looking at a few european nations.

I also think some of the volunteering suggestions were going to be very difficult for organisations to make meaningful or shoukd be paid positions.

I think weekends is actually more disruptive than saying a one month block, or creating a choice like a number of hours which you could do in one evening a week over several years, one week a month, in a block depending on your life situation.

I had less issue with the military bit which was a choice for a smallish number, might have some pay and was long enough to learn something useful and some sort of scheme encouraging people into the TA with a starting course isnt terrible for those that want to.

My DC’s mental health is on a knife edge already due to ASD and severe anxiety disorder and OCD and dyspraxia. No way could they cope with any of this shit and nor should they !! If Tories and their voters are so keen on NS then they can do it themselves 🤬

Socks, both by DC have done a lot of volunteering. If yours are old enough, point them in the right direction. I find it helps to for them to do application themselves - with guidance - rather than it being done for them as well.

What do you expect to happen to them over the next 5-10 years?

It's picking on the young I have a problem with. They will face a far more difficult life than those aged 40+ have so far.

Yes, and life is only going to get more difficult - for most people in the world, not just the UK. This is a perfect time to think up ways to build young people's resilience and help them find a sense of community and purpose.

I'm in the same generation as this proposed national service cohort, but had already graduated by the time the lockdowns hit. My specific age group is messed up enough - we have poor mental health, we're much more inward-looking than previous generations, many of us struggle in the workplace. And yes, I am absolutely a product of this too because my mental health isn't great, I struggle against neuroticism and phone addiction, and I'm nowhere near as mature as a 25-year-old living a century ago.

How much worse is it going to be for the Gen Zers whose schooling and opportunities were limited by covid?

I agree with all of this. I’m talking about NS as a concept, not the Tories and their ‘brilliant’ ideas. I think it could be a great scheme if done properly.

I have a child who would be affected by this. Will employers be forced to keep her job open for her if she can’t work 1 weekend in 4?

I imagine they will, the way you have to if your employee is called for jury duty. The difference being anyone can get called for jury duty, whereas all the 18yos are going to need 1 in 4 weekends off, so employers will just not employ anyone until they have finished their year of delivering prescriptions and, hey presto, your dd will have 3 out of 4 weekends free, but won’t be able to pay her rent and people like the OP will slag her off for not working.

Yep.

Dd 17, called it Rishi’s Hitler Youth.

The reason people object is because it is a badly thought out gimmick, pulled out of the hat on Saturday.

It is not going to happen.

I think community service could benefit some young people, but do you honestly think it would actually be helpful to NHS workers etc having to babysit inexperienced teenagers who don't want to be there?

And that's quite aside from the obvious fact that even if the Tories won the election, it would be logistically and financially virtually impossible to implement and the admin behind both running it and dealing with people refusing to do it would be huge.

YANBU

Some people can’t even bear to have their adult child make their own cereal, and I think there’s a serious over reaction to this not unreasonable idea

How offensive. Do you have any idea how that sounds?

People are getting outraged, @MaryMaryVeryContrary because of the utter fucking privileged arseholes running the country suggesting it who have absolutely ruined this country in the last 14 years and now they want young people to give their time freely, why? To try to sort out the shit they have left behind in public services? I'll tell you who should do National Service - all Conservative MPs and anyone who has voted for them, donated money to them or enabled them to stay in power. They should be made to work for free to put this country back together. That's why people are angry. Because it's just one fucking thing after another, and now this. I really hope they all get kicked out to the far side of fuck in a few weeks' time.

No it isn't, it is outrage at the totally dismissing of the huge input these teens are already making to community life, volunteering officially, volunteering unofficially, work experience, part time jobs, (below the minimum wage for adults)

What about my neighbour, who gives his mum a break by caring for his Grandad with dementia regularly? Walking his dog, cooking him meals... that doesn't count as officially volunteering, but thousands of youngsters do similar.

One weekend a month is massive. And it takes the young people away from many constructive things that they are already doing, volunteering, earning, family time, social time with friends.

And for what? Nobody is going to benefit from this, are they

We don’t think about the next year let alone next 5-10 years. We work on one day at a time hoping today isn’t the day he’s mental health gets to the point he can’t cope anymore!!

I imagine she’s very worried about precisely that, being the parent of a child with ASD myself. A little empathy wouldn’t go amiss here.

There are just so many better ways this money could be spent in engaging kids, especially those who are going off the rails - which happens way before 18.

24 days of 'mandatory but not really mandatory because we'll just fine your parents if you don't do it' service is not going to help anyone who is already disengaged or gone off the rails or involved in county lines.

It's just a lot of silly nonsense if you ask me and I'd be amazed if it gets of the ground - there is no way NHS staff want to be supervising 18 year olds doing jobs they don't really want to do and aren't getting paid for. I heard that the army was desperate for people in cyber security though so I suspect that's what this is actually all about.

As a Jewish person I think @ArseInTheCoOpWindow Dd made a very funny joke 🤷‍♀️

I honestly think if you're championing this and are not volunteering yourself, you're a hypocrite. What do young people owe society, that older people don't.

Fwiw, I also think it's a stupid idea, not costed properly and is just a knee jerk reaction to losing votes to Reform UK. I reckon, if introduced it would just be another complete fiasco, like everything else the Tories seem to touch.

He’ll have to do something at some point. I’m not being harsh but we are facing a societal crisis with young people opting out of society yet still need supporting due to MH reasons. It feels like in 20 years only half of people will be up to working due to various problems.

It is unreasonable though, because it is a last gasp attempt at winning back a few loons from Reform UK PLC. It is not a serious policy. If you think it is, you are being really gullible. Check out very recent Parliamentary Questions on the issue.

She knows that. But with our children it can be very hard to see what their future will be. Please try and be more compassionate. It’s not easy lying awake at 2am wondering what will happen to them when you’re gone.

Which is also why the reactions are over reactions because it isn’t gonna happen.