To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

The 8am thing is mad, I was thrilled to see a museum SEN session at 11am the other day.

I don't think places should be allowed not to try at all. Letting her into the toddler area (especially as she is still little at 3) sounds like an easy reasonable adjustment if she is supervised - but you might need to agree it in advance. Maybe they could do one quiet swim session a day with low numbers and make that an early one (it's not just ND people that benefit from a quiet session). We're not into theme parks but I think a lot of them seem to have quite good schemes and they're fundamentally noisy and chaotic.

We did actually take DD to butlins once when she was younger but it was during covid so numbers were low anyway. Now she would find it difficult. I actually find it a bit chaotic and I'm an NT adult.

I think you need to go not in school holidays.

I am not going to waste my time explaining , you are rude, patronising,and have no genuine interest in the answer.

@DragonFly98

I am not going to waste my time explaining , you are rude, patronising,and have no genuine interest in the answer.

You mean, you don't know.

Some reasonable adjustments should be automatic - things like ramps and lifts for access.

Some people may need to prove they need - things like ride access passes

Some will be personalised to the individual- for example DS is tube fed so we may need access to somewhere to sort his feed in private which isn’t the toilets.

what should be excepted will vary from one venue to another depending on the nature of the venue and what they offer in general. Many places now have information of what they have in place on the website and most places will try to accommodate as best as they reasonably can if you get in touch to discuss things.

I take my kids to Butlins every year and I would never, in a million years, take an autistic child there. Its waaaaaaaaay too much for them and would only lead to stress and meltdowns.

Ah, like "shows" for kids that are quiet and unobtrusive.
No queues.
No delays to discos.
Empty changing rooms at the pool.

Would love to know how you would implement such an absolute antithesis of a holiday camp.

YABU. I get it, SEND parenting is a nightmare at times and it does not feel fair that you have to miss out on some experiences as a result, but not everything can or should be made ND friendly. Butlins is known for being noisy and bright and colourful and busy busy busy, that is their selling point.

This. Been reading the last few replies with disgust. The ignorance on this thread is astounding.

Yet a lot of the people saying YABU are actually families with autistic kids themselves or they are actually autistic.

Absolutely. Apparently an autistic child is 160x more likely to drown than a neurotypical one. That is staggering data. And people on this thread are saying autistic kids should avoid swimming pools?! Shame on you.

If you read my post properly, you will see that I referred to 'one poster' - not specifically you - so no need to take the defense! Was actually in reference to @penjil who stated:
"Dance halls and swimming pools are boisterous and noisy by nature, and for that reason alone should be avoided, I think"

I wonder what response I'd get if I started a thread on how I wanted to go on a mountain climbing holiday as a wheelchair user, and what should the holiday company/mountain be doing to make it accessible for me...?

We chose a Haven site specifically because they offered autism friendly kids activities at specified times- fabulous!
Turns out you have to walk through the loud, bright and overwhelming arcade to get there though. We called Haven after the holiday, not to 'complain' but to let them know that this isn't autism friendly and they need to be aware of that. They honestly couldn't have given less of a shit.

I’ve said earlier that we have autistic family members so I really DO get it thank you very much

Then your views are especially disappointing.

It was just another view point that hadn’t been considered yet Thst maybe if we ASKED the autistic community instead of assuming that they want what a NT Community consider to be fun then The answers might be different. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, just that it’s the NT community calling for the adjustments here.

It's also worth being aware that you are making a big assumption that everyone on this thread 'calling for adjustments' is NT. What in the world makes you assume that?

I presume you also missed the part when I said I was an educational researcher... so yeh, I HAVE asked many autistic people what they want 🤦🏻‍♀️In fact, I'm doing a research project involving ND children tomorrow in London. But thanks for the suggestion...! 🙄

I'd associate Butlins with loud and crowded. Especially the children's events. I think yabu but I would definitely contact them with suggestions.

And if YOU read my post properly you’d have seen I said “For example”. So you can simmer down too…

What is disappointing is that you seem to be ignoring all the autistic people here who are actually TELLING you that Butlins would always be their idea of hell and no amount of adjustments would make it a place they would like to visit.

You can’t twist a research project to fit your own hypothesis.

I think it’s worse to offer autism friendly sessions that aren’t autism friendly at all than not offer anything. Some places def use it as a marketing ploy rather than out of the goodness of their heart

My autistic son loves Butlins we’ve been going most years since he was about 2 and he’s now a teen. We do have to think about what we are doing though to make it successful. he can’t cope with the busy dining hall so we tend to have our main meal in one of the restaurants mid afternoon when it’s quieter, we book a nice apartment as it’s not just a base for us we do spend quite alot of time relaxing in there, we buy the vip wristbands so we can get into a venue early with minimum of queueing and before it’s busy. Out of everything what we struggled most with last year was the queue for the swimming pool and queue for flumes in pool.

Yep, because the handful of people on this thread on mumsnet are equivalent to the 1000s involved in research projects. I'll just delete all that work and hand in my PhD shall I? Looking forward to showing my colleagues this thread tomorrow!

Looks like I've definitely touched a nerve... 🙈

Is your research project “what people with autism expect from Butlins”?

That's really disappointing. Great you raised it though.

What a weird question. I'm currently researching accessibility for ND children (among other things) and will be meeting/observing/interviewing ND children in London tomorrow. There are many many projects like this going on all the time - but of course, people on MN know best 🤪

@surreygirl1987

Yep, because the handful of people on this thread on mumsnet are equivalent to the 1000s involved in research projects. I'll just delete all that work and hand in my PhD shall I? Looking forward to showing my colleagues this thread tomorrow!

So the 'handful' of autistic people are ignored, as per; also, you are going to show the thread to colleagues tomorrow and what? Gloat? Laugh? Mock us? Do you think you put pp in their place? What's the reason you are looking forward to showing colleagues?

You should be embarrassed, not proud, of your posts here and the way you have dismissed the voices of actual autistic people because you think you know/are better