To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

[GreenPhlem]

have just left Butlins. Will hopefully never go back.

We were visiting with our autistic 3 year old grandaughter.

Not one mention of “autism friendly” shows anywhere. Every thing we attempted was too loud and in your face, even with ear defenders on granddaughter was struggling. You would have thought a place like Butlins would put on at least one autism friendly show a day but nope … nothing.

We took her to the tots disco last night - was meant to start at 6pm so we got there for 6pm knowing DGD will struggle to wait for something to happen … 6:05pm and nothing is happening - DGD getting restless and wants to leave. 6:10 the redcoat comes on and says the kids disco will start in about 15 minutes. No chance we could keep DGD happy for another 15 minutes so we had to leave. As we were leaving he said something about another show that would be happening at 7:30 unless the PJ masks photo shoot goes on for too long then that activity will be cancelled!! God forbid they miss out on money making photographs

Swimming - you now have to book a time slot. We booked 11am. 11:05 were still in a queue outside in the rain. When we eventually get in the changing rooms are so packed out (as everyone is going in and leaving at the same time) that DGD gets overwhelmed and shuts down. Nowhere quiet to take her … no thought to neurodiversity

Took her to soft play. I booked her into the toddler area as she would struggle being around the big loud hyper kids. I was told she was too tall for the toddler area and have to go into the big kids area. A small, timid autistic girl going into the big kids area with 10/11 year old kids flying around screaming and shouting?? Was never going to work so we left (DGD was already starting to have a meltdown as soon as she saw the chaos of the big kids area).

Is it just me or what?? Surely a place like Butlins should factor in that some kids may require a bit of reasonable adjustment?

The forest holiday or low key sites (Landall for instance) sound perfect. I think I will come with you.😉😆

I think I’ve realised what the main difference in the argument is between “everywhere should be wheelchair friendly” to “everywhere should be autism friendly”.

If you’re in a wheelchair it must be a huge source of frustration not to be able to get into places you want to get into. The adjustments help you to access a world you want to access. Same as why supermarkets should have sensory hour as the autistic community have a NEED to access that space and it makes lives better.

Trying to make somewhere with as much sensory input as Butlins entirely autism friendly, you have to ask whether this is something that a large percentage of the autism community actually WANT to access. Are we just trying to make autistic children fit into a neurotypical world? Or is it actually that an alternative destination would actually be more within their sphere of preference and this is another instance of trying to shoehorn the autistic community in a space they would rather avoid?

Just more food for thought.

OP it is to your credit that you advocate for your DGD. Please feed this back to Butlins. It is important they receive this feedback even if you are not intending to go there again. Inclusion is so important and it often comes from a place of genuine ignorance that venues don’t consider those who are ND.

I think you are right that this is perhaps not the best holiday option for her moving forward but please do consider contacting them directly to share your observations.

I understand your upset and empathise with your feelings @GreenPhlem A neurodiverse child should also be able to enjoy the things a neurotypical child does.

However, approach it from a different perspective. My kids are both neurotypical but have never wanted to be involved in holiday clubs. They didn’t want to be away from us, were intimidated by staff in costumes, liked to be in bed a routine time of 7pm etc. Butlins would not have worked for us either. It is loud, bright and overwhelming.

Don't be disappointed though. Research where you go next and work your holiday around your lovely grandchild. A lodge sounds perfect. I would highly recommend Hoseasons near Cowes, on the Isle of Wight.

Obviously Butlins have enough visitors to make it worth their while and don't feel the need to change.

My Ds with ASD loved Butlins ..

I hear you are grandma . But just to help … downtime is important . It may be sat staring at a screen - , familiar things help , own bedding , pillows . Self catering can work well - restaurants can be overstimulating .

timed things can be tricky . If you don’t need to turn up early don’t .

I have a pic of my Ds in busy seaside town - sunflower lanyard , ear defenders , sat drinking a milkshake starting at a screen . He needed that break .

Also 10 minutes enjoyment may be enough. It’s a win there isn’t a requirement to enjoy the whole event. It’s us that wants that .

Bluestone is nice - the indoor soft play/bouncy castle gets quite busy with bigger kids in the evening - but is normally much less crowded earlier in the day so you can plan your day to go earlier (and because you don’t have to pay to go in or prebook slots so you can always pop in and out again). The free play areas in the serendome aren’t normally crowded and because it’s basically a giant marquee with open sides it doesn’t get noisy in the same way indoor venues do. I’d just recommend avoiding the temptation to over schedule- one prebooked activity a day on the full days and the wandering around enjoying the free stuff at their own pace was enough for my kids at that age (and that meant the kids weren’t stressed out rushing from place to place).

Im not so sure about the centre parcs recommendations - the chalets are quiet and calm - but the swimming pool which is the main draw is incredibly noisy (even more so in the kids areas) - I’d try her in a similar busy noisy water park type pool as a day trip first to see how she finds it before booking a holiday there. All the noise of the flumes/waves/wave sirens/splash park jets on top of all the children screaming is a lot! My son does like that kind of pool now but it took several years to work up to it - but at age three no way!

Sandy balls in the new forest was quite good around that age - lots of outdoor space with a few small outdoor playgrounds, small fairly quiet pool, we didn’t bother with any of the evening activities but there were a few things like outdoor cinema that would be a lot more chill than an indoor kids disco.

Butlins is all about fun for kids...playing, noises, music, shows, swimming, and kids do make noise and things don't always run to time.
That's the nature of life in general.

If your child cannot wait 5 minutes for a show to start without a meltdown, then it's best you don't take them to places like Butlins.

If a swimming pool is too busy, then again not an ideal place.

Dance halls and swimming pools are boisterous and noisy by nature, and for that reason alone should be avoided, I think.

You can't have silent music shows or quiet swimming pools, it just won't work.

What so if a kid is autistic it automatically means they should never go to a swimming pool? Don't be utterly ridiculous and ablist. Swimming pools offer SEN sessions. Butlins could do the same but chooses not to.

Dance halls and swimming pools are boisterous and noisy by nature, and for that reason alone should be avoided, I think. This is the epitome of ignorance.

You can't have silent music shows or quiet swimming pools, it just won't work. Erm, can you please quote where the OP asked for it to be 'silent? 🙄

My nearly 6 year old is autistic... And not severely, I wouldn't ever take him to Butlins I also wouldn't expect them to cater for him, I would just take him to the type of place he can handle ( for us that's nature and wildlife so camping etc)

I think you may have missed the point; they might want to attend, IF it was more autism-friendly!

For those of you saying we shouldn't try to include ND kids in a NT world, shame on you. As an educational researcher, I can confidently state that in many (of course not all) cases, relatively small adjustments can enable ND kids to enjoy a grest many experiences they may not otherwise be able to access. We should be promoting inclusion, not exclusion. We also have to remember that some ND kids have NT siblings. I have a ND and a NT son. They are chalk and cheese. Surely we can provide a world where they can co-exist happily, without needing to avoid places like 'swimming pools' as one poster so ignorantly suggested!

My son is the same age as yours and I agree that I wouldn't take him to Butlins either as I know what it's like... but that should not stop people fighting for a more inclusive world. As parents, we should always expect disabilities to be catered for.

OP, it is NOT your fault for expecting the world to be more inclusive. Please don't take the fault for this. Remrmber that the majority of posters on here likely are not parents of autistic children and if they were, some may feel differently. Writing a review is great, as it will raise awareness to Butlins (if they read it) but will also be useful for parents of ASD children if they are considering booking a holiday there. I, for one, won't be (much to the frustration if my other, NT, son). But that does not mean I don't think Butlins shouldn't be doing a better job of being more inclusive. There are so many relatively minor changes they could make that could have such a positive impact.

We’ve been to haven in the past which we’ve enjoyed.
the trick has been to keep your expectations low & keep to what’s achievable for her.

my ds loves the beach & swimming, so we’ve managed that-it’s usually quieter in the pool first thing so we’ve booked the earliest slot.

he absolutely won’t tolerate any kind of show or evening entertainment so we’ve taken other things to do in the evening & tried bowling or mini golf etc where he was able.

we don’t eat out & either cook in the caravan or buy take away.

swimming in centre parcs was amazing so definitely look into that if you can stretch to it.

if you’re in the north west look up a charity called the a world. They organise lots of different autism only days out. We’ve had some cracking times with them.

Butlins does have a silent movie evening in the pavilion. You use headphones. Op’s dgd would probably be too young for that.

Friday swimming is significantly quieter than any other day.

the puppet show isn't loud and has a much smaller number of children watching than other shows.

there are lots of sessions, for example craft ones and sports ones, that are bookable with small numbers.

the problem seems to be the choice of activities. You chose loud and busy ones.

Of FGS 🙄

Friday swimming in quieter in theory and also in actual numbers but we did a 7 night Butlins break last year at minehead and went on the Friday and they shut the lazy river and a section of the pool, presumably as there’s less people they want to pay for less life guards, so although there are less people they are crammed into a smaller area so it feels just as busy. Queues for slides were less busy though

I don’t think my 2 yr old daughter is autistic but she gets easily overwhelmed by loud/busy situations as do many children. I think you’re expecting the wrong things. A quiet place with peaceful activities and space would be more appropriate

@Dandelionzebra I was just thinking Blue stone too. Lots to see around that area too.

Butlins have a silent movie, they also have the sky park which is sensory, they also have fast track passes if you don't want to queue, that also have chalets that are disability friendly with car parking space right next to them, the whole site is accessible, surely that's a lot more than some other holiday companies do?

I agree there with op, why can’t there be some quieter shows as neurodiverse or not, not all children like really loud noise. When we went to Hoburne recently they had a quieter wet and wild inflatable session in the pool. The music wasn’t so loud so more enjoyable for kids that are sensitive which was great!

Google number one cause of death in autistic children and you come up with “drowning” - we absolutely must be teaching our autistic kids to swim and therefore need to take them to swimming pools. @surreygirl1987 is spot on. I too have an ND child and also NT children and have taken them all swimming together - it can happen and it should happen. Accommodating ND children/adults doesn’t necessarily require massive adjustments, just a bit of consideration from others which surely is not difficult.

I also believe that parenting an autistic child has made me a better person. I am much more considerate of other people, much less judgemental, and I have my lovely son to thank for that. He is absolutely gorgeous and a delight to have around, he just needs a bit more consideration of the environment he is in than other kids might.

I’ve said earlier that we have autistic family members so I really DO get it thank you very much. As I said, my nephews tastes are very different to mine - a fun day out us riding the buses or trains to terminus and back. We adjust our lives to his likes but never in a million years would choose it for ourselves as something we want to spend our days doing.

Surely this is a switch of that? He would be adjusting his preferences to live in a NT world but it isn’t something he would choose, even with adjustments. It’s not his “thing” to go to a noisy chaotic place. There’s nothing wrong in that. I wouldnt want to go to an all night rave - it’s not my thing. I would choose something else to do instead rather than find a way to get through.

I haven’t said there should be no adjustments and as some posters have said, their ND children DO like these kind of places. It was just another view point that hadn’t been considered yet Thst maybe if we ASKED the autistic community instead of assuming that they want what a NT Community consider to be fun then The answers might be different. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, just that it’s the NT community calling for the adjustments here. Maybe instead we should be looking at developing an entirely different model of holiday camp which is predominantly geared towards broad autistic preferences (and yes I know that’s a broad brush approach but you have to start somewhere) with adjustments for the NT community within it rather than the other way around. Or maybe Butlins offers a quiet week each year where they switch their model the other way around?

Also, there is nothing in my post to say autistic kids don’t need to learn to swim for example. Of course they should. And there are great wquiet slots available at pools across the club try which work so much better. But peak holiday season in a resort like butlins will find it really hard to make those kind of adjustments for the few in their business model. There are too many people on site lining up for their turn to limit the pool for an hour a day to a handful of people (unless they wanted to charge for the privilege which would seem even more ablist to me…)