To think pronatalists are on to something?

[Carebearsonmybed]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/25/american-pronatalists-malcolm-and-simone-collins?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

I don't agree with everything this couple say or do but I do think we are approaching a demographic timebomb when the global human population starts to drop in 50 years time.

Most women probably expect to have more DCs at 20 than they end up having by 45. What can we do to get the UK birth rate to replacement rate of c 2.5 so we don't have a crisis of elderly people without enough workers to pay for or provide care and subsidence?

It wouldn’t be desolate. It would be the age of the dolphin, the virus era or even the AI era, provided we don’t kill every living being before our own demise.

The article made them sound truly horrendous, so I'm against it.

That’s an interesting thought!

True, but that was just basic food. Not out of season fruit and veg, meat for every meal.

Even now most of the world's population are living on locally produced carbohydrate with some scraggy gristly meat on special occasions and local in season fruit and veg. Most people also do not have a private car, never go on a plane, never have a hot shower. That was what I meant by "Western lifestyle". Not just basic food for survival minimal luxuries.

Our current lifestyles bear no resemblance to the conditions most people live in but increasingly they want the same as us, and even Western lifestyles have got hugely more energy intensive since the 70s

Even now most of the world's population are living on locally produced carbohydrate with some scraggy gristly meat on special occasions and local in season fruit and veg. Most people also do not have a private car, never go on a plane, never have a hot shower. That was what I meant by "Western lifestyle". Not just basic food for survival minimal luxuries

It’s actually not as bad as this in most of the world. China particularly has lifted people out of incredible poverty, running hot water is not a luxury and air travel is within reach of the common person (though many still prefer the outdoor toilets lol). This is a good thing tbh

I've just read the article again and am sitting here thinking of their poor children. Hit, going to be taken out of school and raised entirely in the thrall of these two people who are abusive, damaged and promoting eugenics.

Elon Musk is their poster boy. Good God.

Haven’t you noticed we have other, hugely less destructive species on this planet? The sooner humans die out and leave the place to get on with getting back into balance the better!

So you think we should continue to be overpopulated, using up resources, ruining the planet.... So there will be enough people working in old people's homes in fifty years time?

Most nursing homes are run privately for profit with low staffing levels and pay already. Having more people won't change that. Also people can be in care homes at any age. Who is going to look after them?

Earth wasn't always desolate before humans came along. We're an incidental by-product, not Earth's raison d'être.

I really struggled to get past the names they've given their children, so I mostly skim read the rest of the article. They sound like quite shit, negligent parents who are having child after child almost as an experiment.

The most useful word I can think of to describe them both is 'punchable'.

Um, the planet wouldn't be desolate without humans. There are literally millions of other species of living organisms on Earth.

I’ve never heard of two people so proud to be such shit parents.

This is one of my favourite comments ever.

It would not be unpopulated! It would be populated by trillions of non-human living organisms!

Unfortunately, only humans (barring a coexisting alien race on a same intelligence level trajectory) are approaching the ability to export living beings off the only place supporting life in the universe (that we know of) before we get hit by another asteroid (which is guaranteed to happen at some point) and lose all life as we know it or get reduced to evolving all the way from amoebas in hopes one day someone figures out how to save life forms on this planet again. Hopefully that life form doesn't get bogged down in bunfights over nursing home fees before figuring out how to give life forms maximum chance of survival by spreading as far and wide as possible.

They are the scariest, weirdest couple - I really feel for the poor children...

What on earth are you on about? Species go extinct all the time and the planet doesn't become "desolate', humans are just another species, one amongst millions. Even without humans, this planet would still have the most advanced forms of life in the known universe.

There have been five mass extinction events in Earth’s history (and plenty of smaller scale ones, eg before and after the last Ice Age). Only humans have a (albeit small) chance of surviving the next one.

Did you read the comment thread? I was responding to someone who said that an unpopulated planet would be the immediate result of humanity dying out. It wouldn't.

Also, last time the Earth was hit by a giant asteroid, we didn't lose all life as we know it. We lost many life forms, but many others survived- we didn't go back to the amoeba stage.

You do realise the "amoeba stage" was a bit of caricaturisation, don't you?

1. Your original comment, which I was responding to, implied that an unpopulated planet would be the immediate result of humanity dying out. It would not. Humanity dying out would not directly cause the death of all other living organisms on Earth.

2. Not one of those five mass extinction events has wiped out every single organism on Earth. Many species, from each of the domains, survived each mass extinction event.

3. Your claim that only humans have a chance of surviving the next mass extinction event is utter nonsense. Even if humans were to survive briefly when every other member of the Eukarya domain was wiped out, along with every single member of the Archaea and Bacteria domains (which quite obviously wouldn't happen), humans would die out very quickly afterwards since we are entirely reliant on other organisms for food.

That's really all you have to say to my comment? 😂

Fine, I will happily retract the final phrase and reiterate that many, MANY organisms survived the last time the Earth was hit by an asteroid. And many will survive the next time it happens- just probably not humans, if we're even still around by then.

No we don’t need to keep increasing population size.

We need to stop thinking quantity > quality when it comes to later life. Just because we can keep people alive medically doesn’t mean we should. Assisted dying.

We need to plan for meaningful financing of later life better-from the first paycheck. As individuals and not reliance on the state. The social care budget shouldn’t be for aged care. Working longer will be part of it but we also need to identify jobs which older people can do-and enjoy-which will probably mean a change in career/job role later on.

We need to live like we’re going to reach 100. Eat (much, much) better, stay active throughout life. Obesity needs to be eradicated. Mental health needs really addressing and not just treating with drugs.

Having more kids isn’t the solution…

Its hard for.me to believe that, because I live in an over crowded area. There are so many immigrants here. I'd hate to see even more people living here. It's horrible. The gp.is full, and there's numerous single.parents of 4/5 kids in 2 bedroom flats here.

And how long do you think any of those would take to evolve to a stage of a planet lift off, while humans are likely only decades away from doing so?

The sooner life forms are on other planets, the higher is the chance of surviving possible total obliteration of life - which, just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean still having all the eggs in one single basket in the whole universe (that we know of) is a very smart idea.