To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

[working8til4]

Why can't they be open 8-6 for everyone? It would help reduce gender inequality in the work place

AIBU - DON'T BE SILLY
YANBU - actually you have a point

As a previous pp has mentioned, other things go on in school when children aren't there.

Teachers don't leave at 3.
Cleaners have to come in

And holidays are very busy. They're not all shut

So how will that work?

This isn't a schools issue

This is a working rights and workplace issues.

At DNephew’s inner London primary school they have breakfast clubs, afterschool clubs and extended day provision, the latter isn’t available on Fridays and is up to 5.45pm. Yes they have extra staff available to do this but how many parents can’t be bothered to find childcare or look after their child?

One child, the best friend of DNephew is regularly at extended day provision as his DM works abroad in Europe a lot and his dad does “admin” for his job (he runs a pub). The dad told DNephew’s parents it’s easier for him to go there especially when the mother is away so he gets peace and quiet. They’re also a one child household.

Should we have more affordable and accessible childcare in this country? YES
Is it the job of schools to provide that? NO!

We are very fortunate that our children get free education in this country. It's not childcare so you can work. It's education so they can learn.

@DragonFly98

Well I wouldn't go that far! I think it's a lot harder to live a comfortable life on anything but a dual full time income though. It would be nice if both parents could work flexible hours. Often men would like to see more of their children as well!

Is this a joke? Working class women have always worked outside the home, it's not a new phenomenon. My Grandmother is 88, when her kids were young she had two jobs.

Are you saying that the only experience you have of schools is being on the PTA? Or have you actually been school staff for any length of time? The non-school staff on PTAs are great and fundraising often couldn’t happen without their help but honestly the suggestions and assumptions that are thrown up sometimes without thought as to why they might not be able to happen. Or the time that they think school staff might have to spare to put something in place…..they often aren’t aware of the implications. I’m not talking about things like school discos in the hall which are easy to put on.

@Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain I’m not sure how this one anecdote is relevant.

It’s not that parents can’t be bothered to arrange childcare. It’s that childcare is sometimes near-impossible to find and yet parents need to work to pay to keep a roof over their heads. Sometimes it even enhances the family’s life.

How? How do you magically arrange your life so that your five weeks of holiday covers their 13? So that your eight hour day plus travel isn't longer than theirs? It's really hard. And one of the reasons I don't have kids is I've observed that. What is the right way to have got my act together?

If the government make it the responsibility of schools to have breakfast/after school clubs on site, then what will almost certainly happen is, the government won’t fund them properly and for many schools (probably the ones not running them now as they have done the sums) will run at a loss. The government not funding dentists and childcare settings properly have been two examples of how well such schemes work.

Heads will then have to take the money from
somewhere else in the school, which will probably come from wages-usually not replacing a leaving teacher/making them redundant.

I don’t think there is either the political will or the public support for a mass increase in everyone’s taxes to pay for universal ‘free’ childcare.

WaitingfortheTardis Sorry, have managed to quote wrong message? Was the one about parents needing to get their act together.

But they expect school services like this to pick up the pieces? I know at least 3 childminders locally to me.

I’m not saying parents shouldn’t work. My SIL works stupid hours though, her DS misses her.

Nope. The OP is correct. In fact, my partner works nights so I reckon they should be 24 hours. I'd maybe see them at weekends but maybe the Conservative government could look at funding weekend schools? That would really boost productivity and help this country get back to where it belongs. I hate the French.

Outdoor classrooms... my school has one for eg... it would be on school premises but separate. . It has toilets own enclosed play outdoors etc... yes there would be a huge cost to set up but it would easily recoup money for government the design is such it wouldn't interfere with anything going on in the school building or cleaning etc and the outdoor class would have its own cleaning etc

@StrawberrySquash you’re right. It’s bloody hard and near impossible to continue with a full-time job when you have kids. In my workplace all the men with kids continue their lives just the same as when they were childless. They can work long hours and few seem involved in things like making fancy dress costumes or faking mince pies. A few of the younger dads seem a little more involved.

The mums nearly all work part-time or have some sort of superhuman arrangements in place for childcare. All of them are ten times more invested in the lives of their children.

Some superstar women make it to the top. Most flounder along the way. The issue is really that the workplace has not adapted.

I am not saying that my only experience of schools is being a parent on the pta, once again you assume so much.
What I am saying is so many schools can manage to utilise their space when it is not being used and open their premises up for profit. Then there are the nay sayers.

Why not allow a non working parent to be able to transfer 100% of their tax free allowance to the working parent & or bring back married couples tax allowance? It would help towards putting more money in the household pot, be cheaper than providing wraparound childcare. So many parents work & end up spending nearly everything they earn on childcare even with the so called free hours, which really aren't completely free.

Schools do need to be open until six. Lessons and teacher responsibilities should end at their usual time. There should be after school provision for any children who need it and also during the holidays..not provided by teachers but different people who can supervise and support fun activities or a quiet place or whatever is needed. The strain on families nowadays is wrong.

It's not " naysaying" , it's experience. We have looked, several times, into the potential of having onsite after school childcare. But it isn't, even with 250 children in school, financially viable, the demand simply isn't there. We have looked at joining in with other schools, but the nearest is miles away and the logistics and costs of transporting children from one site to another were prohibitive. So we run breakfast club- at a small but manageable loss- but can't do more than that. Now could we find an external provider who was interested, their costs were even higher. So yes, we probably have a couple of parents bemoaning the fact that we have no wrap round care available and a business manager heaving a sigh of relief!

I don't think it's a stupid idea to redesign how schools work. Why just shoot the idea down rather than consider the possibilities?

As many people have pointed out, a lot of children have to go "somewhere" to be looked after during working hours, whether that's clubs, childminder or whatever so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this could be done in a school setting.

Obviously nobody wants them to be doing academic work for 10 hours a day, but all those other skills that would be useful - vocational or life skills that could be taught by a different set of teachers - and things like hobbies - music/dance etc. could be done there. A bit like wraparound care, but with actual focused stuff to do, rather than just effectively babysitting?

How do we fund it? Combination of subsidies for low income, key workers, parents, variable amounts depending on the class? It could be an opportunity for people who want to work only a few hours per week. One of those "hen's teeth" jobs that has to fit around timings for the rest of the family. Make it optional so that parents can use it or not as needed?

At the moment there are a lot of grandparents doing child pickup/drop off and afterschool care but our population is aging and people are having children later, meaning that the grandparents are getting older and people are working longer too.

This.

I think that both parents needing to work full time to be able to afford to run a home, including, ironically, to pay for all the childcare needed outside of school hours, is detrimental to everyone in society. It does not benefit children, parents, teachers, overall societal standards of behaviour and morale, or the good physical and mental health of the population in general.

The choice for both parents work part time, or to have one parent stay at home while the other works, should be a financially viable option, and for many families this just isn't the case, especially with the current COL issues.

You have to pay for childcare. I agree it's too expensive. But there's no magic strategy. Everyone (except for people working term time contracts) is in the same boat. It's not up to teachers to fill the gap.

You are being unreasonable imo. Extending the hours in organised group-care settings is not in children's best interests. Encouraging flexible working hours so that parents can actually look after their own children would be more worthwhile lobbying for.

When I was at primary school in a small town, we were once told to bring in some cloves for THE NEXT DAY. We were going to spend a very valuable afternoon sticking them into an orange.

This was the early 00s, and cloves were only really available in the big supermarket in the next town which was a car ride away. My parents worked shifts and there was no way they could travel in that direction to buy these things.

The next day the teacher said “I know it was short notice, but I managed to buy some”, completely ignoring the fact she was a woman in her 40s with a car whereas I was an 8 year old.

Sure. But even then it's complicated. What happens when you have a work emergency? What happens if you work shifts? And where do you find the money from? And what if your child isn't happy there? It's all hard!