To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

[working8til4]

Why can't they be open 8-6 for everyone? It would help reduce gender inequality in the work place

AIBU - DON'T BE SILLY
YANBU - actually you have a point

Birth rates are falling so clearly a lot of people are NOT having children until they can afford them and are finding the work/life balance of having kids difficult. We do need a new generation born in this country at some stage.

I’ve been a working mum with difficult hours and it wasn’t a great stage of my life. Britain needs some solutions to this problem - whether in better working conditions or more childcare.

As for work, you know the reality is that the men and the women without kids are generally the ones who advance. The mums in high raking jobs in companies with a bad work/life balance are unicorns.

When my DS1 was a newborn, i remember voting for Ed Miliband, promising wraparound childcare in every school. Pretty sure the SNP promised the same at the last Scottish election (confusingly, given they are currently in power, and yet I still have no childcare).

Clearly, this is not a wildly outlandish concept. I don't think anyone expects teachers to provide it, or for children to spend three extra hours drilling times tables.

It was not a surprise to me that children need childcare. I do admit that I did expect to be able to spend money to get some though. I did not foresee private provision closing, all council provision being closed to save money, and childminders quiting or having waiting lists years long. I expected to be able to increase my hours when my DC started school, not to be forced to cut them.

I don’t mind paying for wraparound care but it is massively over scribes at the school which DS is starting at in September 2024. There are 30 spaces for 450 children. There is also ONE childminder that may do wraparound and pick up and school so that’s a handful of extra places.

Because the UK votes conservative ie for low taxes and a small state. Then we belly ache about the state of the state.

But no one can ever answer about the jobs that CAN'T be more flexible. Everyone just kind of shrugs and says well it doesn't really matter because most people (??) have office jobs.
Doctors and dentists CANNOT just wander in and out only working 9-3. I remember years ago working in a dental surgery and one of the dentists worked 9.30-2.30 only due to childcare. Hardly anyone wanted to see this dentist when they realised her hours. All working people and those with children would say no sorry can I see someone else because I need to be seen outside school/ work hours.
(Besides the point but it also caused issues for the nurse working with her who didn't get a lunch break until 2.30 despite having to be in at 8am when the clinic opened. And the dentist didn't want to keep having her nurse chopped and changed throughout her session)

This thread has got really long and I'm sure this has been mentioned by school staff already but what on earth makes you think that school buildings and playing fields just "sit there" locked up during the holidays? Haven't you considered cleaning staff, caretakers and school business managers and the hours that may be in their contracts? Have you seen the state of many school sites? They are old and in a state of disrepair. Annual maintenance of buildings and grounds has to be scheduled for the times that children are off site. ie. holidays. Normal deep cleaning. Painting. Relaying flooring. Fixing roofs, replacing outdoor equipment sheds. Installing new routers or phone or entrance systems. Tree maintenance. Overseeding playing fields (spring and autumn). Repairing fences. Cleaning inside windows. Replacing kitchen equipment. Resealing the hall floor.

Teachers come in and have a good sort out of their stock cupboards. They set up their new classrooms. In primary, all the new labels for books and pegs etc need doing. Office staff come in and do all the archiving and shredding and setting up systems for the new year (because the last few weeks of the summer term is manic and you don't have time to do it all).

INSET days usually involve full day mandatory safeguarding or first aid training or curriculum updates so it's not like all this stuff can be squeezed into those.

Please, just engage your brains and try not to think that the only things that go on in schools are what you see as a parent. There is SO much more that goes on that you haven't got any idea of.

OP you do know there are no teachers left these days don’t you? Who is going to staff this? The supply teachers and TAs who bridge the gaps already?

Extending teacher contracts would be very difficult. Many would not wish to or be able to provide after school and before school care for three main reasons

Own family circumstances and lack of childcare
Need to work on prep and attend meetings after school
Work life balance and burn out

Also govment unlikely to wish to increase pay to incorporate extra hours

Schools would struggle to recruit other people who just want to work before and after school.

Numbers in after school clubs are generally low anyway.

Many kids want to go home and rest after long day.

I think what would be better are more childcare settings that offer this care. My dd went to a primary with a pre school at the side if the playground that also offered a before and after school club. This was great for working parents.

As the thread goes on and judging by the op’s responses I’m beginning to think it is.

The main issue is that childcare is not the job of teachers. If we put child care into schools, childcare will become the job of teachers by stealth. When a school can't recruit, has childcare staff off sick etc it will be the expectation that ratios are managed by existing staff stepping up. So teachers. They'll be expected to do that without pay and at a moment's notice. Over time, it will just end up that teaching staff are responsible fior their class 7am till 6pm.

I do think childcare in schools is important for parents but it can't be the case that every child is entitled all of the time. It's complex, unwieldy.

Because funding cuts. In primary longer lunchtimes cost more as lunchtime supervisors need to be there longer. It's hard enough to recruit for them as it is, many of them in my primary are older retired staff whose kids or grandkids went through teh school. They are just loyal to the school and like the kids and wouldn't WANT to stand in a cold playground in winter for longer than is necessary. We barely get any external people applying for lunchtime supervisor jobs when we advertise.

In both primary and secondary kitchen staff would need to be there longer. School staff doing lunch duties need to be paid for it. If TAs stayed for a longer day they'd need to be paid more too. In many secondaries the kids can be WILD at lunchtimes, and some behavioural issues which take place at lunchtime take all afternoon to sort out. Nowadays there are many more (often pointless) staff meetings straight after school. Often weekly.

There are many reasons but it mostly comes down to money.

So because something doesn't operate exactly how you want it to OP, it is behind the times and should change?

What a selfish, arrogant way to view the world.

It’s not childcare, it’s education. 🤦

Unbelievable. Shall I start a sister thread named 'AIBU to think that parents should get with the times re. education versus babysitting?'

Jesus Christ!! I did NOT SAY THAT. I said take precautions, meaning use a couple of contraceptive methods clearly, not kill an already conceived child FFS.

Stop hitting out at other people for your own lack of financial planning in life.

I think employers should give better hours to working parents, to fit around the school run. I would have stayed in the last job, if better hours were possible. I became a sahm because of it.

Yes let’s look to schools to fix another societal issue. I have already commented on this but I read it again and got angry again haha.

Childminders seems like a more sustainable option because there's also the opportunity to get a full time wage from it by working during school hours too. Wraparound is never going to be full time hours, and it pays accordingly.

For those slating parents’ financial planning etc…..I find financial planning is always easier when you have a decent income! Usually from a job. The issue is it IS very hard for parents to both work and have kids. Normally the burden falls on the mothers for the traditional reasons. For all the gender fluidity of Gen Z they will be hit with the very same thing in a few years.

Women end up in part-time limited roles and often don’t fulfil their potential because of the lack of childcare. It makes no difference if you’re an Oxbridge graduate - same problem still applies. The system is designed for men.

Those people posting here who can’t see it’s a problem are not helping. Is there any point in encouraging our daughters to work hard at school and do their best when this is what lies ahead? Why not just teach the girls sewing and homemaking if you can’t be part of the solution to help women have children and still have decent careers? And don’t just expect them to rely on the dads - plenty of supposedly responsible fathers just push off at the drop of a hat and leave the mums holding the baby. Best that mum has a way of bringing home the bacon.

Seriously though OP, you just don't have a clue how much time is involved in teaching.

OK, it's partly my choice as I'm newly qualified/ newly in role, but I'm planning 10 lessons a week. That's at least 10 hours outside teaching hours.

I have to mark or look through about 450 pieces of work in a standard week. OK, some gets done in lessons, but so you know. I have to work on my displays. I'm currently writing 30 reports with 5 sections of writing, which involves knowing/ verifying the interests of every child in and out of school, as well as all their strengths/ development points over four subjects. Fair enough, I have most of this in my head, but there are always some children you have to spend time looking into, because it's hard to find positives to share. Then there's subject leader work, other school initiatives to manage, class assembly, trips to plan, training to do and prepare for, meetings to attend, parents to call, behaviour incidents to log. And more. In school time, I work until 6pm each day at school, then do about 2 hours at home each night. In half term I work about 2-3 days prepping for the new term and catching up. At weekends I'll work most of one of the days.

I fully respect that as a new teacher, I've got more to do than others - I'm preparing things I will use to make up my displays and resources; I'm doing more training. I've not delivered the lessons before, so there's more reflection. I'm less experienced, so I'm slower preparing slides and thinking about content. But even so, there's still lots to do, and you're essentially giving me a 5-hour swing each day by taking away time I use to plan, whilst adding to my workload?

Doctors and dentists CANNOT just wander in and out only working 9-3. I remember years ago working in a dental surgery and one of the dentists worked 9.30-2.30 only due to childcare. Hardly anyone wanted to see this dentist when they realised her hours. All working people and those with children would say no sorry can I see someone else because I need to be seen outside school/ work hours.

My friend is a GP working school hours only and she's very busy. Getting an appointment with a GP or NHS dentist is so difficult these days that many people will take what they can get if they are desperate. I work nearly full time and can flex my hours so I can take time out for a doctors appointment in the middle of the day. Other people who could use those appointments include those who need them in an emergency, those who are ill and off work, those who have sick children off school, retired people, people who work part time. Etc etc.

@Sherrystrull 'No one is saying it's ridiculous.

They're saying the steps needed to 'refine' it are complex and hard and not always possible.'

Some people are saying it's ridiculous - and those are the comments I am addressing.

Some people think others should have a crystal ball and scrutinise what their future holds before they even think about trying to conceive.

Some people think those that work and need wraparound care don't deserve to have children in the first place.

Some people think nobody would want the wraparound care jobs - which clearly isn't true, as many schools have such systems.

Quite a lot of people seems to think the suggestion is that teachers themselves provide this additional care, rather than dedicated people employed for the job.

@AtomHeartMotherOfGod the OP said the childcare does not have to be provided by teachers.

@KarenSmithsWeatherBoobs yes the planet would be pretty empty if the only humans were the ones born to 1st class crystal ball gazers with perfectly honed spreadsheets foreseeing all possible wars, pandemics, natural disasters etc.

Schools are govt buildings and paid for by tax payers so they can do more to make the assets work better

so they definitely should looking to offer more after school activities at reasonable costs - the demand is there and the facilities are there!

doesn’t have to be teachers doing the extra hours but would be v helpful for so many parents and also bring in extra money for school.