To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

[working8til4]

Why can't they be open 8-6 for everyone? It would help reduce gender inequality in the work place

AIBU - DON'T BE SILLY
YANBU - actually you have a point

Okay. Well my average working week is ~36 hours across 4 days. Sometimes it’s way more, sometimes it’s way less, but that’s an average.

On those 4 days I don’t see much of my kids. But I know they exist. I know they are happy and cared for. I know they are learning about the world. I know they are forming opinions and likes and dislikes. They are becoming independent people whilst knowing I am coming back for them every single time. Selfishly, their sheer existence brings me great pleasure and I adore and prioritise the days I have with them. I don’t really do anything else on my none working days then spend time with them. They are too young to realise but we are able to save a little bit to hopefully pay for driving and university. Maybe that’s a choice we are making and we could cut a half day somewhere for more time. But having chances in life is exceptionally important to me as I grew up with nothing. HTH.

Wow. That’s so harsh.

Brilliant answer. Thank you @VivaVivaa

It's employers who need to get with the times and offer flexi time, WFH and shorter working hours, it's dystopian that people have to spend more time at work than with their own kids!

Because that's not the change we need. We need things to change so that people can afford to live and raise a family without both parents working 40 plus hours a week.

Shoving kids into school 60 hours a week isn't going to solve anything, it will just make things worse.

Also, to fund these ridiculous hours, taxes would rise. You think childless people or parents who don't need their kids in 10 hour day settings want to pay for that? They don't even want to pay for services they actually use.

This makes me laugh!

The government won’t even find schools properly for during the school day - they care even less about the wraparound care!

It’s harsh but the truth is that the reason fertility rates are dropping. People are assessing not only the quality of life they would have as parents but also the quality of life they could give a child and realizing the numbers don’t add up. Family isn’t at the heart of society or policy anymore and something has to give.

”my question now still just stands for those who deliberately go in to it knowing they'll barely see them even from conception time.”

It doesn’t seem there was any attempt to disguise your judgement. As I said, I’m not in that target group so I’m not taking personal offence. Objectively, it is very judgmental.

Parents who work have to source childcare (usually from professionals but also from family). With the exception of homeschooled children, most parents outsource education to schools. In the same way you would look for the right school for your child, a parent would look for the right childcare for their child.

You would have to employ more people, the work day would probably extend in actuality but split between 2, 3 people.
It would just be another career option, you already have part time working, why can't there be a middle between that and full time?

If you want them to 'get with the times' they'd be open 24/7 to accommodate ALL working parents. Seems even more unrealistic now. YABU & entitled to think anyone other than a paid nanny should accommodate your working hours

Not sure who is going to want these extra childcare jobs, currently our after school club isn't able to attract any applicants and is relying on the goodwill of TAs (paid overtime, but it's a tiny amount) and teachers (unpaid) to cover.

Even if it were easy to staff, that's a long day for children. Employers should be incentivised instead to offer more flexible options.

Education is the responsibility of parents, by law. Parents can choose to use schools to educate their child, and while the child is there, they are in the care of the school. So I see school as childcare. And I support the OP’s idea.

What are you talking about 'barely see them'?

Many long jobs (12hr+ shifts) do so many days on/off so the parents still get much of the week with their children. Education jobs, you get all holidays with your children.

The best thing for young children is to be around other children anyway. SAHPs were great in the 50s/60s when children could socialise freely, mum's went to local playgroups and made friends that they saw daily. But in modern society, young children maybe going to 2hrs worth of church playgroup and a couple of paid baby classes where they don't leave their mum's side or allowed free engagement with the other babies is actually quite damaging to development.

Obviously parental income is the greatest indicator of a child's outcomes, but in primary at least, there is a noticable difference between children who attended nursery and those that didn't. Children of 2 working parents (whether together or not) generally have much more emotional intelligence than those with a SAHP.

No real thought process in to the how's it will work, just a 'must do this' situation

You know people still have dc despite war, famine etc.

@arethereanyleftatall will you answer my question about who you think should be having dc & what classes as enough time seeing them?

But how would it work in say a dental surgery where the receptionist, 2 dental nurses, the hygienist and one dentist all want to work 9.30-3 only? Who is going to want to work 3-6 or 7 only? Do you really think a practice would find a receptionist, 2 nurses, a hygienist and a dentist to work 4 unsociable hours a day?

Why can't wages be increased so that one parent doesn't need to work or just work part-time? When I was young, my mum worked at night, my dad came home & took over, mum went to work either cleaning or on the twilight shift at a local factory. It meant that she was at home during the day, could do school drop offs & pick ups, was at home during the holidays & was able to get things like housework & shopping done during the day. She started work during the day once my brother started school, dropped him off at school, then went to work but was home by the time schools turned out, I was 12 by then & looked after my brother during the day in the holidays, my mum would go to work early with my aunty who she worked with & was home by 12.30pm, we didn't get up early during holiday time so would only have maybe a couple of hours to kill until she was home & she was on the end of the phone if we needed her. Lots of the local mums worked at night either at the factory my mum had worked at or at the local chocolate factory, there don't seem to be as many of that type of job around unless you work in hospitality or in the supermarkets, even then they usually have to include working weekends.

I’m interested to know how the employment of additional childcare staff in schools would work when there’s already a shortage of childcare workers in the current market.

You could say “oh but they’ll be employing teachers” if you wanted it to be teacher led but the same problem exists there, teachers are flooding out of teaching.

Yes I think you would have hours across the board to suit more working people than you do now and even extend the hours a business or service is open to serve people that would have to otherwise book time off for example.

There’s a distinct lack of imagination on MN tonight. A school is essentially a building with children in it. There’s no reason those children cannot be in it for a longer period of time…breakfast club, homework club, sports clubs, film club, board games club, book club, drama club, crafts club. There are endless ways to entertain children on school premises.

And it doesn’t need to be free because the education is free. It could be outsourced and paid for by parents. I know schools which already do this for paid-far sports clubs so the process and precedent is already in place.

It makes absolute sense to align the school day with the working day.

Does this only apply to mothers with careers? Because many fathers have careers and no one tells them that they must make a choice between career and parenting.

I work full time and still see my child plenty.

Ooo. I hear your side 💯. Modern living and the demand for there to mostly need two incomes, really heaps lots of pressure on. Especially as childcare is expensive.

But I think most kids would be miserable spending this much time at school. I think potentially it also would be counterintuitive to learning.

I don't think extending the school day is the answer. The cost to provide all those teachers alone is unfeasible. I also don't see things getting cheaper or life becoming less expensive. I imagine more children will be in the wrap around (paid for) care.

How about huge corporations are actually required to pay tax and then that pays for more staff. It really sucks we just accepted the govt propaganda that they can only hire more staff in these roles if taxes go up.

We left for school today at 8.15am, I didn’t spend much time with dc in the morning as they were getting ready and I was putting on a wash etc. They scooted to school so they weren’t by my side. Picked them up from school with their friends as Fridays is normally a play date. They pretty much ignored me for hours apart from when they couldn’t find a particular snack. Tmw one has a sports match & in the evening DH & I are out so dc are staying over with gps. On Sunday one wants to go to their friends house before we go away. I obviously don’t spend all my time with my dc (nor does DH) but my dc are happy, know they are loved & imo I don’t think we need to spend all our time together. I get 8 woks holiday but my dc often go to a holiday/sports/activity camp for some of the school breaks. It wouldn’t cross my mind to say no because they aren’t seeing me enough!

It's not lack of imagination. It's an understanding of the education sector as it is and the fact, after school clubs cannot recruit for love nor money!

External providers don't benefit much from a 1hr after school session once you've factored in travel time/admin costs. What kind of business can be successful only operating 1hr a day!

The only ones I've seen work are where the sports club hires out the school hall/field whatever for 2 or 3 evenings a week plus a weekend to offer a club. But even then, a child can only attend 1 session and it might not even be a 3:30 session so doesn't help parents needing childcare.