To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

@Willyoujustbequiet all schools in our area give priority to catchment (after LAC and EHCPs)

it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school.

Is it possible to have a civilised debate without resorting to mocking people’s choice of name? It somewhat undermines your argument when you feel the need to resort to childish name calling.

NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.

The Labour Party haven’t yet announced any plans on what they intend to do about any of those issues, and how they plan to improve those areas.

I’ll send DD private if she doesn’t pass her 11+. Not because I want her to wear a hat to school and have the use of a swimming pool but because state schools, thanks to some truly shocking parenting, are like war zones now full of aggressive and disruptive kids. This problem is getting worse every day. Why should my kid be disrupted and subject to that just because other people can’t parent?

I live in area with only a few good secondaries and several indies. My house is close to one of the good secondaries so I can expect my house value to rise even higher if some of the indies close. So more people will be priced out of the better state schools. Who wins, then?

I couldn't care less about it myself. Or whether Centre parks is good value, if Percy goes well with Clive for twin boys, or if Boden or Mint Velvet caters best for a size 14 apple. But clearly other people do, and they're not harming anyone. I won't be joining any campaigns on their behalf, but it doesn't bother me if they want to discuss it.

Everyone has as much right to post here as anyone else. This is an issue many parents are facing so obviously some of them will come to a parenting site to share experiences, opinions etc. My youngest is at state school and I have sympathy with any parent worrying about their child’s schooling and potentially having to move their child. I actually think this policy will cause issues for both state and private school children rather than fixing anything.

What will happen, if this does in fact come to pass, isn’t going to be some great equalizing moment in schooling. Parents won’t suddenly start sending their children to the schools with the highest levels of deprivation that are most in need of funding, they’ll focus on sending their children to exclusive state schools (which do already exist, and are operate as basically state funded ‘private’ schools). There’ll also be the knock on effect on house prices, and all the social impacts that has.

Private schools will also find themselves in the position of being able to recover VAT, which they currently can’t do because of being VAT exempt. They may be able to recover this for the last ten years.

You know that 14% of Labour MPs are privately educated??

Private schools save the state money.
A child educated privately costs the tax payer £0 per year
A child in state school costs the tax payer 7-8K per year.

The current models forecast 7-10% of DC leaving private sector. Whether you believe that or not is up to you but economists who do this for a living are using that estimate.
If 5% leave this will mean 25,000 kids needing state education = cost to taxpayer of £200 million
If 10% leave the cost to taxpayer will be £400 million per year

Many LAs are now saying they have zero places (Oxford, Cambridgeshire, Ealing to name a few). Therefore private kids will have to be added to already oversubscribed schools.

The Labour Party have already said they’re not changing charitable status, probably because it’s dawned on them that half of private schools don’t have charitable status anyway.

The VAT and charitable status positions are entirely separate.

Is there VAT on nursery and university fees?

All it takes is for enough parents to not be able to afford the fees and the school will close. A private school not that far from me has just announced it will close at the end of the academic year for financial reasons. There are around 450 pupils at the school and they all now need to find another school.

So if the impact is enough for some parents who are already struggling to find the fees unaffordable, it doesn’t matter that some parents can still afford to pay because they might not have the option. They will need to either find another suitable independent school or a state school.

Where are these kids going to go to school if they get pulled from private. All the state schools here are already oversubscribed.

My autistic DD goes to an independent school which we pay for and we pay a SEN fee for her additional support. We actually can afford the increase so, assuming the school doesn't close, it won't affect us personally, but if we couldn't she would need an EHCP and a SEN place. I know there are lots of other children in the independent sector who would be in the same boat. So if you care about the existing crisis in SEN education then you should care about the unintended impact on that sector.

You mean like the state school parents banging on about the price of abroad holidays and how it's not fair that they might be fined because otherwise they can't afford the holiday they're entitled to?

Everyone has things that they buy that others think of as luxury.

People who are cheering the idea that fewer people can afford private schools are coming across as sour grapes, and haven't really thought through the implications for state schools, or the children currently in them. It won't result in improving them, that's for sure.

Not got children in private, and don't holiday abroad either.

No. Well, not yet. The Labour Party will probably have those in their sights next. University funding needs increasing somehow.

My old independent school has just announced it’s closing. Not sure local Secondary would cope with influx of new pupils. Also many local people will have lost their jobs.

I'm just waiting for the screams of outrage when the property prices near good state schools shoot through the roof. If you can't afford one tough. Your child will have to go to one of the not so good schools instead.

This is a nasty spiteful policy that as with all attempts at social engineering will backfire and penalise the very people it was supposed to help.

Ours is continuity of education (after EHCPs etc.) So if you're out of catchment but have attended the feeders for several years you take priority over anyone from out of the area who has just moved in closer to school.

They're all outstanding around me and I think it's been designed exactly to stop wealthier parents trying to buy their way in at the expense of other children who would be disrupted. It works well.

So the VAT issue will have no impact in my area as far as I can see.

All the secondary schools here have feeder schools so you can live next door to the secondary school but your child won’t get in if they don’t go to the feeder school.

@Willyoujustbequiet how do the Primaries admissions work?

I am not sure I agree with your claim that there is a big surpluss of school places.

My catchment secondary school had 900 applicants for 300 places this year.

I believe the year that is currently applying for junior school places was a ‘low-birth year’ but that’s it.

Agree.

But labour won’t care because they’ll have been elected by then and that’s what it’s all about. They’re no better than Tories in that way, people are stupid if they think any politician gives a fuck about them.

Many Secondaries have a ‘bulge’ at the moment. Primaries are now seeing the impact of low birth rate

This is nonsense. PARENTS will be stressed if there is increased competition for state school. But teachers won’t. There is only so many kids you can fit in a classroom - we aren’t suddenly going to see 45 kids in a primary school class!

In my area the Tories have built vast swathes of new housing with inadequate secondary school provision. All that has happened is kids have had to go further afield, and one or two schools have been given funds to build portacabins to take a “bulge” year with an extra form.

The only impact on teachers is that their private school staff jobs are at risk. Those teachers can be employed elsewhere in the education sector, for the most part.

in my area five year ago, a private school was struggling due to a shortage of pupils because the fees were too high. Before it went bust, it was actually taken over by our LA and brought into state sector. With a rigorous change of strategy and a new SLT and a strict budget, School is now absolutely thriving.

im not saying all private schools can be taken over by state sector but clearly it’s a possibility for some.

Lots of the private school threads …on all sites…we read patents complaining how they have to ‘scrimp and save’ to send their little darlings to private school well they’ll just have to ‘scrimp and save’ a bit harder. Just like a lot of the population who have to ‘scrimp and save’ a bit harder to put food on the table.