To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

It's a non issue as they've all got space. Lots of out of catchment kids.

First schools that is. We're on 3 tier.

A local private school shut due to financial reasons in my town. It has acres of playing fields, a pool, art building, sports hall, massive building for teaching. The local community were able to have swim lessons there, play football, rugby, have festivals, people used the sports hall at night and at the weekend for judo, dance and there were some charities that used the facilities too.

Since my town has nearly doubled in population in the past 9 years, and not added to its state school facilities, this was a great opportunity for the local govt to snap it up. As it happens, DC like mine got offered 4th choice of state school when they were in caption area.

The PS had a 350 year covenant on it saying it was only for education. This was ultimately smashed by lawyers and hey ho, it now has 350 houses on it.

I will have no skin in the game when VAT is added. It’s a stupid, stupid idea which will screw up secondary schools. I’ve seen what happens when private closes down and they look for state places. It’s a car crash.

you are not being unreasonable. I'll find the extra 20% because it's a priority for me.

I wish they would all shut up too ... fuck off then and make more room for the people who want to pay it.

The real educational inequality is between different state schools.

Nailed it. The difference between a village church school or a leafy suburb comp and an inner city academy chain is the real source of elitism and inequality in the UK.

@GoldenHorse how do you get into the feeder schools?

@SnuffyAndBigBird and no facilities for those extra houses

I don't know, but perhaps Keir Starmer might use his own personal experience as a blueprint.

When his state grammar changed to private, fees were waived for him and others already there until 6th form.

That's unlikely to be unaffordable for many private schools especially the smaller ones, but if Labour is determined to bring in the VAT policy perhaps they could have it only apply to new entrants (or at very least exempt exam year kids to avoid massive disruption at the worse time for them)

You would like to think that he would use him own personal experience to reflect on the impact of the policy but I highly doubt it!

There are huge falling rolls in schools around here-they will welcome any influx of pupils which will mean classes will be fuller and schools will have the budget to put a teacher in each. At the moment, due to low numbers, some classes have unqualified teachers, TAs or a mix of both ‘delivering’ lessons purely because it’s cheap.

A lot of people don’t seem to see that there isn’t a black and white line between private and state schooling. It is much more of sliding scale - there are state schools which are effectively private because you pay a £200k premium to live in the catchment. It just makes the champagne socialists feel better about their choices. Many of those who come on MN slagging off people who use private schools have paid the same amount to avoid little Jimmy going to the local sink school, they just want to be able to pay themselves on the back about their superior morals 🙄

It’s not news that children from families with more money have better chances in life. Why is it ok to pay for tutoring, or ballet lessons, or to buy them books, when not all those things are available to all kids? People with more money can spend it on a better experience - at every stage of life. Applying VAT or abolishing private schools altogether won’t do anything than take more state places at grammars and other decent schools from people who wouldn’t have ever had the opportunity to go private. It won’t do anything to actually level the educational playing field and those that say it will are kidding themselves. People who have money will continue to buy advantages for their children in whatever way they can, it’s human nature and literally every decent parent is doing that in one way or another.

No middle class parent with a bit of spare cash is going to send their child to a shit or dangerous school and then spend their time and resources ‘improving the school for everyone’ like some people seem to think - they will move house to within a tiny catchment of an outstanding school and bump an existing local child out.

I'd go further. A majority in this country WANT VAT on private school fees. This is a recent survey: https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Results_PrivateSchoolVAT_Jan24_clean.pdf
62% supported VAT
21% opposed
16% don't know

That is a significant majority wanting private schools to pay in line with other luxury goods.

In fact in Feb 2024 46% of people do not want them banned, but 27% do want them banned and 27% do not know.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/should-private-schools-be-banned

This

I live in an affluent area with sought after state schools but because the state provision is what it is we don't have any private locally. There's simply no need. This plus our admissions criteria will mean that it won't affect us at all.

I am with you OP.

Yes and Reigate Grammar reverted to private in 1976 when Keir Stramer was 13/14, so in year 8/9. According to my family members who lived in the area, it was publicised for at least 2 school years before the change, which means that his parents sent him their knowing full well it would be a private school for most of his education, that he would benefit from, as did he. What a hypocrite.

DD is in state- I have no personal interest in fees but nice of you to be so assuming! We moved to somewhere with excellent state options deliberately, but half the village kids are in private and most are on bursaries, the state school couldn’t take them if they had to.

DH went to private on a scholarship and bursary and the school isn’t accepting new funded students because of the risk with fees. Which is a huge shame. The fees will just go up and it will be more exclusive (it’s already circa £25k for day).

I didn’t vote because I don’t agree with either vote .

people are entitled to feel upset . This is what they valued felt it was important to them . The super rich won’t be affected it’s the people making sacrifices because to pay for a private education . Does it affect me no but can I have any sympathy for there situation - yes .

i do think the Sen provision in school or lack of will have more sympathy because these children are also affecting the education of NT children.

There are also many parents on here who privately educate their children so it seems a place to come and sound off your concerns

@MinervaMcGonagallsCat may think the projections of kids moving from private to state are overblown, but how many estimates include the risk of smaller schools closing because enough parents (and it may be a small %) cannot afford fees meaning the school as a whole is then financially unviable.

This is the real risk; not whether individual parents can afford it or not.

I just don’t think VAT on school fees will bump up house prices in good school areas. Most people here send their children private for secondary only. Average school fees = £20k, secondary school VAT adds £24k for secondary in Scotland, £28k in England. It’s no massive house price increase.

@Shinyandnew1 school funding is lagged, so if a state school gets an influx of pupils from private schools they won’t get funding for them for at least a year, so the school will be in a worse position budget and staffing wise

"Quite.

It’s not selfish to care about your own life and look out for your own interests."

@MaryMaryVeryContrary 🤣
That is the very definition of selfish

Because as a straight Q of "do.you support VAT on schools" many would agree.
Re-phrase the question to "do you agree with VAT if it will result in between £200-400million per annum cost to the state" and you may get different answers.

It is the Brexit NHS bus. Populist strapline of taxing the rich in the hope that the majority of the population don't drill down into the details.

Quite. He’s the worst sort of socialist wanker. Sir Keir is not “down with the people”.

Whatever Labour's plan, there should be some acknowledgement that children's education will be disrupted and it should be introduced in phases to allow for kids with upcoming exams.

The general attitudes are really disappointing with sneering on both sides. Children are at the heart of this policy (or should be) and that seems to have been forgotten.

It’s annoying that they can’t read the room, but as this poster rightfully points out, if people have to pull their kids from private schools due to affordability then the state system is going to struggle

No-one who lives in a £2 million house is down with the people