To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

Where on earth did I say that? I said that more children will sit for them. Not that they will take the places. I’m not ignorant enough to believe that privately educated children are “better”. 🙄

People choose private school precisely to avoid their children having to mix with the plebs so will probably be happy about that.

Bollocks noone stress tests for 20% increase in mortgage costs

It won't affect my family and I suspect many others. I have read the arguments against and I'm not convinced sorry.

But enrolment has dropped 3% this year already, if it hits 10% the policy raises no money. That’s just the simple math - if you factor in other economic impacts (send support, reduced income tax due to reduction in working hours, admin costs, legal costs) it’s probably a lower threshold before gains are zeroed out.

When a private school round here closed, the other private schools gleefully mopped up the pupils from the closed school - and made the effort to add in buildings to accommodate them. Net impact on state was small.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/discover/property-news/mortgage-repayments-up-60-since-2021/

On a slightly different note (but hopefully still relevant to the OP), how much money does the Dep for Education need to bring state schools up the standard they should be?

How much will the VAT on school fees bring in to meet that need?

From having worked in state and indie I think the VAT is going to be a drop in the ocean and a whole lot more money will be required.

Friends in various state schools tell me the horror stories which are their lives on a daily basis - and I wish this was an exaggeration. A total overhaul is needed and that’s very brave for anyone to do.

One big issue with education is that the teachers’ pension scheme is just so expensive (and I’ve heard it’s going up again) so staff cost schools so much. This is one of the reasons education is just such a never end hole to be filled. What can Labour do about this?

I do wonder is VAT on private ed just a vote winner for the politics of envy?

People who were paying for private school will have access to money for additional tutoring to get into grammar schools. So it certainly won’t help with levelling the playing field

Of course they do.
If the interest rate was 5%, people would check that they could manage a 1% rise in rate.

The business I help run with DH has had a good year and will owe 100k in corporation tax, which has gone up from 19% to 25%. It's an export business so cash coming into the UK from other parts of the world that wouldn't come here if we didn't do the work.

The business nearly paid 0k in tax this year as DH who is the main wealth creator in the business was stricken with a debilitating illness that meant we were in danger of not being able to fulfill our contract. The best the NHS could do as his condition became more serious was to offer to move him up the waiting list. We had no private health insurance and had to pay for an operation from savings. We have now bought private health insurance.

Meanwhile the children are at state schools. But the oldest hasn't had a maths teacher all year so we are having to pay for a tutor. Generally the education they are getting isn't great so now we will send the youngest to a private school in the hope that at least they will have teachers.

On the one hand I feel very fortunate to be able to do this. On the other I feel annoyed that we are paying a fortune in tax and that public services have become so crap.

Yes, I meant the vat goes to the government who can then spend it on state education including that of former private pupils.

Your second point I disagree with. It's well known that the trickle down economy doesn't work. In any case, the numbers affected are small - unlikely to have any dramatic effect on local economies.

We’re planning to send our two to private because the local state provision near us is absolutely dreadful. Only 21% of kids leaving with 5 or more GCSEs, metal detectors at the entrances because of a rise in knife carrying etc. We aren’t wealthy, we’re going to have to save and make careful choices to make it a possibility but I’m happy to do that so my kids have a half decent chance at life. If that’s me choosing for my kids not to “mix with the plebs” then fine, would
rather they didn’t get stabbed in the corridor. Not everyone lives in the catchment of excellent grammar schools.

god this is the most ridiculous post I have seen yet. Do you think private school parents are all so dim that they don't understand how contextual offers work? Do you think that there are no kids from private schools that benefit from contextual offers? Of course there are.

Many private schools have opted out of the teacher pension scheme. This policy will probably encourage other private schools to do that too. I wonder if this will be an option for Academy Trusts, to help their funding crisis, obviously won’t help teacher retention crisis

Perhaps not all but on average, they stand a much better chance of passing. In our area most non-selective preps we look at have 80%+ pass rate, vs 20-25% on average for the whole county.

Sorry if this is a derail but why aren’t private schools paying VAT now? I don’t understand why that hasn’t always been a thing when they’re a business.

There is a huge grey area between the YABU and YANBU though isn’t there?

Don't worry, they’re still going to pay for your child’s education through their taxes too. Don’t fret!

It will have zero effect on the vast majority whose kids just attend the local school, who never had any choice in the matter anyway.

@ShillyShallySherbet because relate to education

My lack of experience after a 30 year career in the NHS? OK 🤷‍♀️

I really would like to understand what you mean and I’m not wanting to sound argumentative at all. Are you saying that there should be no gap in quality of teaching? There should be no gap in quality of facilities? There should be no gap in extracurricular activities? Is it that you want everyone to have the same quality of teaching regardless of whether that means it’s bad because then you think it will be an equal playing field? Because that won’t be true when school leavers are competing with others from other countries. It also doesn’t take into account all the parents that pay a huge premium to live in a catchment area of an outstanding school and then pay for extracurricular activities and tutoring separately to get into grammar schools. Do you think that paying for any type of “advantage” should be taxed so tutoring should be subject to VAT? If you think that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of education then why is that standard not being targeted by everyone paying more for it? And if a certain level of education should be funded by the state, why does the government not fund independent schools as well at the same level of all children in the state system if their parents are UK resident? Why not just tax those things that are over and above a standard level of education and becomes a “luxury” effectively. If raising the standard of education for all is the aim this policy will not achieve that and the most obvious losers will be those who have had to sacrifice other things to send their child or children to independent schools will no longer be able to do so and some independent schools will close meaning increased pressure on some state schools.

There's almost no point in a thread like this because people are so entrenched in their positions, they're not really interested in hearing opposing views and considering them on their merits. It's all about politics of envy which is why it will be a vote winner.

Like George Osborne's tax changes for private landlords. It's been really successful in decimating the PRS and affected renters just as much as landlords (as many predicted it would in 2016) but hey, why let that stop a bit of good old fashioned landlord bashing which people just love to do.

But the bigger question is how do they cope when they get there? They will be with lots of naturally very bright children and they don't get the spoon feeding they have had in prep. It is a shock to many them and some don't cope

Has the impact of how much schools can claim input VAT been factored in if they charge VAT on fees?