To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

I don't care though that rich people may need to pay more money

The short sight on this thread is astounding. Try having a think about some of the issues mentioned in this thread. Because this policy will affect us all and it's difficult to see any positives.

I don't feel strongly about this policy either way. We may go private at secondary if our kids don't get into the (phenomenal) local grammar, but we'll probably have saved enough by then to cover any increase in fees due to VAT.

Random musings on this topic are as follows. I imagine it will take a while to see the consequences of any increase as parents with children currently in private will probably do all they can to tighten their belts to avoid interrupting their education. So the effect will be less children starting out at private schools going forward rather than a move en masse to the state sector. If schools close, I imagine parents will target alternative independent schools rather than necessarily needing state places, although that may vary depending on area.

Parents currently thinking about private school will think twice. I wouldn't like to have a Y5 child atm and be targeting an oversubscribed state school as my first choice for them.

Some private schools may choose to "soak up" the VAT increase and cut their coats according to their cloth, rather than charging parents more. So we may see a slowdown in the private school facilities "arms race" that has afflicted some schools in recent years. This is probably a good thing - some private schools seem to have forgotten their original "mission" amongst all the shiny rowing centres and climbing walls. But it's still not going to make these schools affordable for most people.

For those SEN pupils whose parents have watched their spark slowly being snuffed out at the local overcrowded state school with inadequate SEN provision and who have stretched themselves as far as they can go or extended their mortgages/gone into debt to fund provision which should have been available to their kids in the state sector, this policy will be a fucking disaster. I really feel for those kids and parents.

Finally, it's an emotional issue. Some people will welcome the change on the basis that private schools entrench inequality (and tbh I find that hard to argue against). Some people will be upset about the possibility of their children's continuity of education being interrupted, which I can also understand.

Personally, I think the fairest way to implement this policy would be to apply it prospectively rather than retrospectively. So the VAT charge should apply to pupils starting out in private schools, not pupils already there. That way, if the VAT increase will make private education unaffordable for the parents, at least that child will have the same shot as any other child at a good state school place at 4/11, rather than having unexpectedly to move schools to wherever is available. Parents should be entitled to some certainty in making educational decisions for their children.

VAT on books next...those privileged enough to buy them can pay more, or go to a library like everyone else... Oh wait ...

Lets say you are correct and 95% stay in private school paying VAT of around £3k on a £15k tuition. That VAT doesn't get kept by the schools - they have to PAY IT ON to the government! There is no retention as at present to spend on other things. It also means the £3k spent on VAT by parents isn't being spent on local business- meals out stop. Holidays stop. New clothes aren't bought. Small businesses close. And thats before the fees are increased fees to cover those that left due to unaffordability. The ramifications of VAT being added to tuition fees goes far beyond whether parents can pay fees. If people stop or slow down their spending elsewhere it affects the RPI and inflation which could cause further rises in inflation and that affects absolutely everyone.

This would depend on where you live. Where I am the private schools are more expensive, the cheapest one is £18000. Housing is also very expensive, rents would set a family back well over £1000. Then there's food, bills, etc. And the 34K salary would not necessarily keep pace with the rise in fees anyway (ignoring the VAT).
I guess if you are prepared to rent something awful, or move back in with parents and only have one child, then it would be doable.

Oh, stop, come on now. Pull yourself together.

I’ll bite..

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush.
We are in the % of families who will be affected by this. We send our two primary school kids privately but it’s a stretch - the increase will mean we won’t be able to continue privately educating for secondary school. I don’t for one second expect other people to care about our position - I don’t expect sympathy or expect people not to vote Labour to prevent this coming in. But obviously it affects us enough that Labour won’t have our vote and they otherwise would have done for sure.

What this looks like for us is that we will instead be sitting for local grammar schools so it’s just one extra child sitting for already hotly competed places who probably wouldn’t have sat otherwise. And my child will be one of many in the same position. Places at good state provisions will now be harder to come by for all.

That’s not so.
Unless you have evidence from a survey to prove these figures.

That's the very least they should be doing if they have charitable status, surely?
The point is that most private schools don't do nearly enough.

I have not read all the comment. I don't think VAT will have a signifanct impact as the majority willl continue to send their child to private school. There actually a declining birth rate lead to closure of many schools, so perhaps the increase numbers my save some schools.

It's a privilege, so no sympathy from me. 20% isn't a huge rise, if you are just scraping by to pay fees before this then you simply can't afford it.

VAT on university fees.

There are around 1.34m stay at home parents. Many of those could afford private school if they chose to return to work. Indeed many private school parents spent most of a second salary on school fees.

Haven’t read the thread, but I do feel for those tiny independents that support SEN children, ones started by parents for example to support children with autism. Classified as ‘private’ because not govt funded but offering important services. What about them, will they also be affected?

On the threads I've read almost all comments are responding to people who are gleefully rubbing their hands at the thought of young children needing to leave schools they are settled at.

It won't actually happen at the scale people think.

Some schools will not pass on the full impact and will look to cut some costs- all those glossy facilities are pointless if half your students leave.

Lots of children in private schools have parents who can comfortably afford to pay more and will.

Lots of children in private school have families who will struggle, but will remortgage, borrow, take on second jobs etc to keep their kids there those last few years

Some schools will offer extended payment plans to avoid losing students.

A minority of children may have to move schools. Children move between state schools all the time - parents divorce, move house, change job etc. They will be fine.

Could you afford a 20% hike in your mortgage?

Indi schools will be able to claim VAT back as well in certain areas, backdated 10 years. Let’s not forget too. The tax is just on education. Not boarding and other stuff.

I always wonder this.

As a parent obviously education is important but what is more important are functioning and well funded emergency and health services.

Private healthcare doesn't send ambulances when your child is in a car crash and getting stacked up outside A&E may mean the difference between life and death.

I know which one is my priority.

I like the way you assume all the privately educated children will get into the grammar schools.

Yes. In fact, I don't know if you were around, but that ship has sailed.

No one knows if boarding fees will be caught. It’s all very vague at the moment

If I couldn't, then I can't afford the house and shouldn't be buying.

This has been considered by tribunal, and the provision of bursaries is neither necessary nor sufficient in demonstrating that the charity is meeting its stated aims. It is however very often an important part of that.

VAT on fees is however, nothing whatsoever to do with charitable status. And once brought in, all schools, whether charities or businesses will have to charge it on fees.

If we re-join EU, which does not allow taxation on education (whether in pre-school, school or university), this policy cannot continue. So I think one important message here is "flagship policy depends on remaining outside EU"

A lot would, because the exams are easy to tutor for. Our prep has an almost 100% pass rate to the nearest grammar, partly because they prepare the pupils for the exam.

I'd be concerned if people couldn't.