To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

Glaring issues both with numeracy and comprehension

State educated I assume 😉

I think people are allowed to be sad if it means that they will have to move children from a school that they are happy and settled at. Who wants to have to move a happy kid?!

@HesterRoon I bet some people are very grateful for bursaries. As funding for state Primaries is dire I bet those schools (and their pupils) are grateful to be able to use sports fields etc. Community groups too.

What do you think will happen if the private school can’t afford to fund these things or indeed go bust? Do you think the Government will provide these things for the Primary schools instead, of course not

Where do you suggest Clemmie and Charles go when most state schools are already oversubscribed? And where is the extra £7k per child coming from to pay for their state school place? You might find it quite upsetting when it turns out that Charles' parents gave up foreign holidays and new cars because they knew Charles was going to have trouble coping in a class of 30, and is now climbing up the walls in your own child's class. Or Clemmie has been working 2 years ahead at her private school and is becoming increasingly disruptive because she's bored to tears back in her own year group.

Of course, the super rich and the children of oligarchs won't really be impacted by the rise in fees, but it's sure good to know that the middle classes are going to be forced out so the taxpayer can pay for their education.

They aren't unrelated at all. It's the bigger picture of what is happening in the country obviously. If vulnerable people are having their lives turned upside down due to cost cutting exercises what on earth makes the privileged few feel they should be immune from any sacrifice? Just bizarre.

This is just going to increase the divide between the rich and the not rich. It's going to undo all the collaborative work that the private schools do with their local government schools because they won't be able to afford it.

One of the local privates 3-18 isn't academically selective and isn't huge and rich. It offers a number of bursaries including 100% of fees for low income students, it has great SEN support. They have a big fully staffed kitchen that only sources food from within 20 miles, it supplies at cost the school dinners to the local schools. I can't imagine this all continuing if Labour goes ahead with the plans, the school is always close to closing as it is.

This plan is just stupid cheap class spite.

I think it's hard because of the reasons people go to private schools aren't always cut and dry.

I'm currently saving up every penny of my daughter's DLA and carers allowance because I know that she will not flourish in a state secondary school. Cutbacks mean that fewer special needs kids are going to get adequate placements. She's brainy and we do a lot with her so she doesn't struggle academically, but it's hard. She has ADHD, ASD, Selective autism and is in year 2 and unable to get her letters the right way round. She can also tell you every bone in a chickens skeleton and is in a competitive sport with kids 2-3 years older than her. She doesn't understand friends, friendship or that you need to say please or thank you to people. She is not going to be able to deal with secondary at all.

Currently if I save every penny she gets and apply a 3% interest rate I can afford a local private school that has a 85% SEN intake, mostly kids in a similar situation to hers.

Add 20% VAT or whatever it is to that cost and I am utterly, royally and completely fucked.

I really, really hope that there will be proper tracking of the impact of this VAT policy. It will not be easy to do because not all the private-to-state switch will happen in the first year. Many parents will strive to keep the children until the natural transition point.

I will also be interested to see the side effect from reduced income taxes from the families that do not need to pay school fees anymore. Personally I think people will be surprised how many families keep the 2nd income mainly to pay school fees. If that no longer applies, there is a lot of room to cut working hours or pouring it into pension to reduce taxes. I will do exactly that.

I'm not sure where you got those figures from. £8k is 20% of £40k, so if we forget that these same schools will be able to claim back VAT too, so the govt will not get 20% of all school fees, you're assuming private school costs £40k on average. This maybe applies to some elite boarding schools like Eton and Harrow. The private schools near me charge around £15kpa so you're looking at £3k.

And the govt doesn't "subsidise" private school children, they just don't take extra tax that they wouldn't be getting if they were in the state system anyway...

I know that, and nor should they of course. That's my point. Most of the private/grammar school kids will get good enough results for A level track, even if not good enough to stay on at sixth form. The majority of the standard state school kids don't (especially the covid cohort). They are all required to stay in education post 16. And today that already exists as a 2 tier system with very little contact (in different classes, different aspirations) or mobility between them. How is forcing more kids into the top tier meant to benefit the ones in the other tier? It won't, it will just reduce the number of borderline kids that can get into the top track. The teaching resources, staff, space is finite.

No it's not - it might increase the divide between the very very rich and the just rich. The not rich are nowhere near private schools.

Of course they're unrelated.

It makes no difference to the disabled or those using food banks if people pay VAT on private school fees. Projections seem to indicate that this could end up costing the tax payer more money than it raises so it's not going to generate anymore money for the disabled or poor. If anything, going by this thread, a lot of disabled kids are in private schools as it's their parents feel this is their only viable option.

So it's not about cost cutting or helping the disabled. I do agree with you though that it is designed to prove to the masses that Labour can 'hurt' the privileged in a way that doesn't really affect the rich or those smugly living in fantastic state catchment areas. Still seems weirdly spiteful and counter productive to me!

It's happening already from my limited experience of applying for sixth form. Parents are looking ahead and applied to state from private for this Sept with uncertainty over fees a top concern. The state sector will get more applicants for sure if they haven't already.

This thread has yet again descended into arguing over the issue when OP's point was simply that the population at large doesn't care – they don't!

And the not rich are going to be the ultimate losers from this policy when you look several years ahead.

You are kidding yourself if you believe the rich are going to stop investing in their children's education just because they cannot afford to privately educate any more. And without paying for private fees, that money is going to stretch much much further

I’m between your votes here.
Agree, obviously there’s loads to care about and everyone will have their own views on what’s important.
I doubt many people will care whether some will have to pay more for private education or care that kids will have to move schools. I don’t think people not experiencing that will necessarily care. So no, everyone will not care.

Much the same as many policies.
Many won’t care about women and girls safety either.

We are a democracy, we can all chose and everyone is not the same

Some very well put points here.

It's a free country, they can complain about what they like.

I have to tolerate car drivers whinging about the cost of fuel (if you didn't pollute, you wouldn't have to pay tax) even though duty has been frozen for years.

Why did you even post? Do you have a point other than to announce to the readers of an anonymous chat board that this doesn’t impact you and you don’t care that it affects others?

Of course rich people aren't going to stop investing in their children's education. But the idea that hoardes of not rich children are going to be massively disadvantaged by this policy is just not true. Those children are already disadvantaged and they don't see material improvements in their education because 7% of the country's children are in private education. There might be some local middle class outrage when it's harder to get into a leafy comp for a few years. And that's what the outrage is about - privileged people feeling their privilege is at risk. Most people don't care, to answer the OP.

Could you clarify the sacrifice.
Before you do it’s worth remembering that Indi parents do not use the tax payer funding allotted for state schooling.
They pay taxes into the system for that but chose to pay again for private education.
So whose making the sacrifice here!

Yabu

The people most pro-state education are those who live in big houses in areas with outstanding schools. It’s just a different type of elitism, but the government is actually subsidising the education of their dc.

What sacrifices are less well off people making? I’m on less than 30k a year so just curious.

She posted because she is a resented fool and needs to rejoice in the stick it to the rich. Expect to see lots of posts like this. I can see many here would end up eating from the rubbish. I really do not know anybody staying here to be taxed to death so how they are planning to make the numbers of the huge welfare bill is interesting.

The OP clearly does care enough to start an entire thread on it. If it’s true that most people “don’t care”, what’s the point of the policy? It raises very little, if any, money.