To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

There's a prevailing idea that only the very rich are attending private school.

I was privately educated and actually many of us lived extremely frugal lifestyles outside of school because our parents chose to prioritise paying school fees over everything else.

I know people who earn considerably more than many people sending their kids to private school earn blathering on about how rich people are getting a "tax break" when in reality they are just not paying an extra tax on paying for their child's education, in addition to paying the same amount towards state education that they aren't using.

I'm also wondering how these same parents will feel when their child's drama class, music lessons, swimming classes and tuition to get them into the grammar school across the county border all rise in cost because the government has removed the "education" VAT exemption.

Current position: Private school pupil costs the taxpayer £0. Taxpayer receives no VAT. State school pupil costs the taxpayer £7,500 per year. Pricate school pupils are saving the taxpayer £7,500

Position with VAT: Private school costs the taxpayer £0 and they get VAT of around £3,000 (20% on average fees of £15,000). If that child moves from private to state, it then costs the taxpayer £7,500 per year. That far exceeds the VAT figure

Mmm.

Except of course it's not going to be a simple swap is it? The taxpayer isn't going to suddenly be taking on a total net cost of £4.5k for every child moving from private to state.

For every parent that moves their child to state school, I'd hazard a guess there will be more that won't. Who'll keep paying the extra 20%.

The cost to the state of educating the movers should be more than covered.

This is very untrue, at least in London where I work. The particularly not rich bright kid from a deprived postcode actually has more chance of getting into many selective private secondaries than an averagely bright bit rich/rich/very rich kid, because of the bursary system. Yet more lack of understanding of how the independent education sector actually works. My son has two best mates at his independent secondary. One is the son of a plastic surgeon, sure. The other is the son of a single mother with 3 younger siblings that lives in a 2 bedroom HA flat.

Sacrifice in that they will have to pay more for the same service they currently receive if the VAT goes ahead.

All these people acting as though they send their children to private school for the benefit of the wider community is absolute tosh! They do it to get their kids a head start, you don’t pay ridiculous sums of money because you’re concerned about there not being enough spaces in the local comprehensive for the poor kids. We have to recognise there’ll never be any real desire to change the system for the benefit of all children unless everyone has no choice but to send their children to a state school, only then will those well off enough be truly concerned about the quality of state education.

If they don’t want to pay VAT they should actually provide a public service. So perhaps every independent school should have to take X number of children with EHCPs in order to stay open? That would be a public service and then they could not charge/ pay VAT.

(Note - NOT take the highest achieving pupils who can’t afford to pay, but those who struggle the most and could do with the extra input of private school. Taking the highest achieving less well off children was always bullshit - and no neither I nor my children have been turned down for such a place, I’m just saying that both takes bright pupils away from state schools and isn’t needed as the child is already doing well)

I find it quite funny they are panicking so much right now

Bear in mind the funding per pupil for state schools is not enough. That is what parents/voters should be talking about

She cares to say that she's sick of private school parents banging on about how others should be expected to care when they don't, not that she cares about the issue – two entirely separate things.

And again, it's irrespective what the point of the policy is – the average punter doesn't care about it, which is just what OP is trying to say. She's not wondering what the point of the policy is.

Good point.!

I'm in my 6th year living in a glorified shoebox next to an outstanding state school because private was out of reach. I agree they should pay VAT.

Yanbu

Most children go to state school and therefore there's little sympathy if a few children have to switch to state!

That said there's some very alarmist assumptions going on here along with a complete disregard for how our legislature works. Of all the many things that a labour government needs to get to work on, changing the charitable status of schools and thus vat exemption will not be top priority. It most likely to be in a budget, with then a lead time to implementation, local labour candidate has said it's likely to take a while when ask as a q&a in my town.

Exactly. It's only on here that's its an issue.

Those children are already disadvantaged and they don't see material improvements in their education because 7% of the country's children are in private education

How exactly do the 7% in private education stop those who are disadvantaged from benefiting from improvements? The parents of those in private education pay for a state education via their taxes and then pay an eye-watering amount of their taxed income towards a private education.

There are a lot of problems with state education at the moment but I fail to see how you can put any of them at the door of people who choose to pay for their children to be educated outside of it.

And what percentage of each year is on a bursary?

‘Clemmie and Charles’ - fuck off with your inverse snobbery! Imagine if someone had started a thread about ‘Kaylee and Brayden’.

Why all the hate and jealousy towards people better off financially than you? I guarantee there are people in the world a lot worse off than you- do you deserve their hate?

How does a child with an EHCP benefit from attending a high-pressure academic environment where the teaching moves extremely quickly? When in state school they get funding allocated to them and a legal requirement to provide the support they need, or they get a special school place which is often smaller class sizes and more individualised than a private school?

This policy is doing nothing to help education, but it is the only policy Labour are currently talking about in respect of education

A lot of SEN children are being forced into the private / independent sector due to there not being adequate support or funding in state schools. We will most likely have to send our son to a private school, as high functioning autistic people just aren’t supported in mainstream schools. It’s not just super rich people sending their children, for some they have no choice, and it’s those who will be hit hardest.

Well, they could always take in some ironing or go de-stress in the spa.. That's the popular suggestion, no?

Lil Tarquin and Cordelia will have to mix with the great unwashed now. Oh no... Lemme get my tiny violin.

@I find it quite funny they are panicking so much right now

Of course you are. You are part of that resented cult that is the left.

My kids will never to go state neither would I be willing to pay a penny more in taxes to the haters. Enjoy the free for all buffet while you can. 🤣

I genuinely know some parents who will vote for Tories because of the private school fees. Which is incredibly short sighted in my opinion, but hey ho

The posters who don’t care don’t need to read the threads which are very clearly about the policy, in the same way that I don’t need to read threads about topics I’m not interested in. Many people are interested in their children’s education which is why they comment. No one is asking others to “care”, they are merely pointing out the pitfalls of the ill thought out policy.

A quick Google suggests that around 1% of private school children benefit from a full bursary. And the actual cost to a school of offering a full bursary is significantly less than the fees charged, as the incremental cost of teaching an extra child, when you are already running a class of 20-odd, is minimal.

As I said previously in the school I am talking about it is above 50% with approaching 45% paying no fees at all (either 100% bursary of mix of bursary and scholarship, 100% scolarships long gone).