Am I being too harsh - timekeeping?

[Rumors1]

I have a sister who I am very close to. We are very different but generally get on well enough. She is a terrible timekeeper, always has been. I have mentioned to her on numerous occasions that I find poor timekeeping really rude, she tends to shrug it off and say its my problem.

Last weekend I asked if she wanted to come to brunch with me and mam. I said I needed to be home at 2.45pm so suggested we meet at 11.30am to give us a couple of hours to browse the shops and eat. She said she was dropping her DD to dance at 12.10 and would be over then. Its about 15-20 drive from the class so I was expecting her about 12.30.

Mam and I browsed the shops from 11.30 - 12.30 and I rang sister at 12.30 to say we were going in to the restaurant so to come straight in when she arrived. No answer on the phone. She rang me back at 12.45 to say there was a change of plan with her that morning and she was only leaving her house now to come over and told us to eat without her. She arrived at 1.20 just as we were finishing lunch.

As usual there was no apology only excuses. I said I didn't want to argue with her but in future would she please send a text when she is going to be late. I said she knew long before she phoned that she wouldn't be here on time and could have let us know then as we were waiting until 12.30 for her before eating.

She said no, she wouldn't send a text as there was no need, she was only 45 mins later, she didn't expect us to wait on her, we could just have gotten on with our day and didn't need her. She totally gaslit me over it.

A few months ago we arranged to meet up with our children and SIL and DN at 3pm to shop and get hot chocolate with the children (the place we were at closed at 5pm). I rang her at 3.45pm and she was in a different town. She said "oh just carry on, you don't need me there..". She arrived at 4.45pm, no apology and carried on like nothing had happened.

Anyway it seems now she isn't speaking to me after last weekend.

I do think she has ADHD, she is very disorganised. I try to give some leeway. I have a friend who is usually late but its always only 15 mins and she almost always texts and certainly always apologises so I don't mind.

AIBU or is she in the wrong?

I hate poor timekeeping. I have a newish friend. I've met up with her maybe seven times and every.single.time she's text me after I've left home to say she'll be late.

The one other time I picked her up from her house at a pre arranged time and she wasn't ready. I had to sit in her kitchen whilst she scurried sound for half an hour getting ready. Why? It's not that hard. If you know you're disorganised start getting ready earlier. I don't feel like I know her well enough yet to say anything but I will soon.

You need to find a way to make this manageable for you. You can't change her.

Things you could try-

Telling her an earlier meet time. Particularly if she's coming to yours.

Only make arrangements where it doesn't matter if she doesn't show. Give her ten minutes then continue with your day.

Stop inviting her to group activities

Rude - my sister is like this, seems to think its ok to leave me sitting around waiting.

Last time, she and a friend were due to come here for a coffee and a catch up, she knew I had work at 2pm, she said they'd be here at 12. She then calls on the day at 12.15 to say they're just finishing up breakfast and will be right over... They showed up at 1.45 and she seemed most put out when I logged into work and had to ignore them to talk to service users (fortunately no calls or I'd have had to shoo them out of the room!).

Don't meet up with her - tell her when you invite her, it is because you want her there for the whole thing, not her popping in for the last 15 minutes, and so either she shows up on time or she doesn't bother coming at all, and you won't be inviting her so often in future.

She isn't gaslighting btw - she may be minimising the effect this has on you and how rude it is, but gaslighting is things like, pretending you had always planned to meet up at the time she arrived, or that she never agreed to show up at the time you expected her.

Don’t invite her anywhere again. And when she asks why- tell her because she is totally incapable of being on time for anything. Even ND people can develop strategies for being on time.
My bil is like this. Several times I’ve been with OH when we’ve picked him up to go somewhere and we can be waiting outside his house for 20 mins on him coming out. I’ve told my OH countless times I don’t understand why he doesn’t just drive away. He’d soon learn it’s beyond rude and unacceptable.

A couple of years for poor time management 🫨

I understand op is upset and its a reoccurrence with her sister but she has claimed they are close... we can't expect everyone to be the same as us even if they are siblings..

I'm assuming you must either be an inly child or speak to none of your family anymore

She's your sister!!! Can you sit down and talk to her like sisters should without biting her head off... can she afford all these things? Is she skipping them and coming later for any other reason?

I understand its frustrating for you and I would invite her to important things at an earlier time than you need her to be there.

You state yourself you know what she's like.. I have friends who are always late... its become a running joke.. and I love them for it. they totally expect us all to just start whatever it is without them..truth is I'd rather them turn up late than not to come at all.

Ultimately would you rather she turned up late or not to see her at all?

You never know what's going on with people and I personally never expect anyone with kids to be able to 100% commit to a set time... because let's face it kids don't care what time we need to be at something.

There's no background here either is she a single mum.. or does the majority wuth the kids herself... all these things make being on time for stuff difficult.

She's not doing it to you intentionally ..its not personal.. she might just be flaky ..she says carry on without her, do just that! And when she turns up be happy and grateful to see her...maybe she'd enjoy turning up more of she didn't get told off everytime 🤷‍♀️

I'm not trying to say your feelings aren't just, you feel how you feel. But you can't expect other people to change you can only change how you react to it. And you sound like you'd be much happier being a little more easy going with her.

Aside from unforeseen emergencies, people are generally late for things they don't perceive to be of value or importance and it's a subconscious way of saying so, without actually saying so.

Either stop inviting her.

Or do as she says and carry on with your day. But tell her slightly different plans than you have. Don't tell her you're planning to move on somewhere etc. don't text her when you move on and don't reply if she texts to ask where you are until you get home.

Then respond "oh sorry just seen this. I was getting on with my afternoon. I'm Home now"

You won't change someone or their attitude. But you can change your response to it and your response to her.

I often find when someone then tries to hold me to account to standards they won't adhere to repeating back their manga helps. So in the BBQ situation I'd have responded. "It's fine. I'm sure you can get on with your day without me here".

Give her a clock?

I had a friend like this and I'd take it personally and it would stress me out.

A few years ago I decided simply not to 'care' about it any longer so I just now go about my business and if she's late, she's late. I have on occasions offered to take her dd to school when she's been unable to do so, she kept turning up late, which in turn made my dd late and me late for school. She knew what time I left so I just started to leave at that time, with or without her.

Your example of the coffee shop would now see me leaving when I've finished, even if it's before she arrives or 5 mins after she's arrived. In your shoes if she pulls you up on it, simply say 'that's a you problem', actually I'd use this phrase for her in general. BBQ - it's a you problem, but I've only just got here and you're leaving - it's a you problem.

I'd just be careful to manage your dd's expectations and tell her that auntie x might be joining us.

My DPIL were poor timekeepers. They would also get caught up in the moment AKA they got a better offer.

One time they were due to visit for the afternoon. We had cleaned and tidied in anticipation. They eventually rolled up at around 6pm. The son of an old neighbour had called round and they had got chatting and ignored the time.

On another occasion they were coming to us for dinner. They arrived on time but had been out for lunch and were not interested in the dinner cooked for them.

They never intended to be rude.

My sisters isn’t quite as bad as this but she deems herself to be ‘on time’ if it’s within half an hour of the agreed time, really winds me up!

She isn’t “gaslighting” you - gaslighting would be if she turned up and claimed you’d agreed to meet her at 1.20 not 12.30 in an attempt to make you doubt your own sanity.

Apart from that YANBU.

I have ADHD and really struggle with timekeeping but ADHD does not stop me from understanding the effect it has on others if I am late. I have various strategies to try and help with my timekeeping and if I do end up being late then I let people know asap and apologise.

ADHD affects timekeeping but it does not make you rude and self centred. That’s on her.

I have ADHD and whilst I have been late in the past (when I didn't know what I had and I've since learned how to manage it by giving myself extra time) I would never have been rude about it. In fact, I would be extremely apologetic. I would also have sent texts.

She may not even have ADHD, she might just genuinely believe her time is whatever she wants it to be regardless of other people.

It was the complete opposite for me. It caused me distress because I just couldn't get moving and I hated upsetting others and the stress of being late was awful so I never chose it, I just didn't understand how to manage myself back then.

Your sister just sounds selfish to me.

But she DID tell you to carry on without her and eat without her, what’s the problem?

sorry I hate rigid people

I don't think the OP is being rigid. She is just venting her frustration that her sister is always very late and never apologises.

That is not being rigid.

We have a family member like this. Nothing worked. So we just said things like the meal is at 12.30 and that's when we'll be eating. Then if she wasn't there on time we just started without her. She often showed up to family parties hours late - she was extremely disorganized and constantly faffed and that was the major part of the problem. She never allowed enough time to get ready and get to a place on time because of the faffing. But she was so used to us enabling her by waiting for hours for her to show up that she never got any better so everyone agreed just to tell her the start time and then get on with it, with her or without her. That's what you should do with your sister. And none of this ringing her up to find out where she is. She knows the start time, if she can't get there, tough.
My relative got her act together when she went on a cruise once and failed to get back to the port on time and the ship left without her. She'd assumed they would check the passenger list and wait until everyone was onboard. Getting stranded in a port in a foreign country where she couldn't speak the language was the shock she needed to improve her timekeeping.

How did she get out of that pickle @dicokno?

I have ADHD and I hate the thought of waiting for people and I hate the thought of people waiting for me!

So once we agree a time - if I think I am going to be late even 10mins I will text them. I also have a habit of texting people when I am leaving - I do that because my poor time management makes me feel concerned I might realise when I am driving that I have miscalculated the travel time - so I tell them the time I am leaving and if I have miscalculated my timing - they can usually work out themselves what time I will roughly be there.

I'm not sure - can't remember the exact details. She rejoined the cruise at a later point and I think, though not sure, the travel company in the UK helped but I do know she had to fork out extra money for a hotel on land and for onward transportation to meet up with the ship.

I don’t think this sounds like poor time-keeping. I have ADHD and struggle to be on time but that’s not through lack of trying. Your DS doesn’t sound like she’s trying and failing to get to you on time. To me, she sounds like she can’t be arsed to meet up with you, like with that hot chocolate thing you describe.

I wouldn’t bother inviting her. I’d just make her aware in a more casual way, eg “Mum and I are meeting at 12 for lunch. Come along if you’d like to” then just get on with your meal. You might even find that if she thinks she’s missing out or you’re not bothered if she’s there or not, she actually becomes more punctual.

I was "late" once to her house for a BBQ. I say "late" in inverted commas, because I told her I would be an hour late when she gave the invitation. She forgot and went through me when I arrived for being late. After I explained I had forewarned her about my arrival time, I said - well now you know how I feel every time we meet up.

Her attitude here changes everything.

I completely empathise that this is really frustrating and I understand that if feels like she's being rude. That said, I really want to encourage you to consider how you would feel if it was that your sister couldn't walk long distances or she had another physical disability.

ADHD is a disability and time blindness is part of that. If your sister is undiagnosed then this will no doubt be even more difficult. I was diagnosed in my early 30s with ADHD and I really struggle with being on time. It's embarrassing, shameful and I try so many different things to avoid it but I haven't found the right aid yet.

Please have some grace for your sister and talk to her about how you can maybe work around it. Perhaps you give her an earlier time to arrive or when you make plans it's for days where it isn't vitally important to be ready at a specific time.

There's no right answer and you're entitled to your feelings but please do some research on how to help people with ADHD, this will hopefully help your relationship and help your sister.

@Nn9011 but you would contact the person you are meeting to say that you were running late. Wouldn't you?

The sister may well have ADHD, but she also shows a complete lack of consideration towards the OP.

Do you set alarms to remind you of the time?
How do you manage to get to places on time when time is really important?

At some point you have to accept people for who they are. And she is criminally late and doesn’t care. That’s ok.

glad you are a sister you are totally entitled to call her on her shit. Your mom should be too. And you should! Especially your mom. Momming doesn’t end at 18.

she has also told you not to wait. Glad you don’t. But don’t stress about her or count on her. Just get on with your day.