All these weight loss drugs... surely we are heading towards disaster?

[shellswirl]

So as we all know there are various weight loss drugs that have become very popular in recent months.

It seems like the whole of Hollywood is using it.

Even regular people are spending huge amounts of money on it from online pharmacies.

I get that these drugs might be useful for certain people with real medical conditions, but really a lot of people are using it as a quick fix to be thin.

With no consideration to side effects or future health. And without thinking about what happens when you stop it?

Surely the best way to lose weight involves no drugs. No fad diets. But exercising more, moving more, eating a balanced diet. Retraining your brain and finding food and exercise you enjoy.

I say this as an overweight person too! Surely there are other ways.

If every other person is taking these drugs won't there be a huge pool of people to monitor side effects etc?

Aibu to say the whole thing makes me feel very uneasy.

@BeretRaspberry my body wants to be overweight as I have settled too comfortably for too long at too heavy a weight, therein lies the problem.

It says you’re north country lass you’re built to withstand gales & famine…:) & hunger spikes, rinse & repeat. Mindful eating, can it really fix a badly broken ‘thermostat’, set far too high?

So. Much. Non-science.

I can’t even start to report all the bullshit anecdotes and pseudo science in here.

Exactly, this is the thing...if you stick at the higher weight for too long it becomes cemented for most and you can diet all you want but your body will fight against you to stay at or go back to the higher weight.

And up until recently it seems that no one was talking about this, and everyone assumed if you gain you can always lose it later on

That's one good thing about all this hype about ozempic, this is being talked about more and people are becoming more educated. Of course not everyone wants to learn though unfortunately.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I think for some people mindful eating can lower their weight but in my experience (from support groups not in a professional capacity) most people stay as they are. In that video Dr Aamodt says that you might fluctuate within a range of a few pounds. But, from what I’ve seen in most cases you probably won’t lose. I’m also northern - definitely built for gales and famine here too.😂

Agree so much with this. Despite my menopause weight gain an huge issues try to conceive (and stay pregnant - 5 miscarriages due to PCOS);, after both my children were born I was EXACTLY the same weight 7 days post-partum as I was the week I fell pregnant. My body had a set-point and it maintained it. Illness, menopause, stress messed with that mechanism (and the efficiency of my pancreas to regulate insulin, as is one of the symptoms of PCOS related insulin resistance). The medication addresses this. Yoyoing weight is not a sign of diet success - it’s a sign that there is something wrong with a) the body’s ability to regulate that set point or b) the diet choices/exercise programme does not work… or both.

Well since there's no one else to come along and tell me otherwise, I guess that's it. I've failed for the last 20 years since my BMI is still not below 25. And I will continue failing... unless I take the expensive drugs to reset "a level playing field" and switch off my desire to eat and process foods through the gut in a normal fashion. May as well give up, delete my fitness pal, and cancel the PT. My body has remembered it wants to be 11-12 stone and not the 9 that I saw on the scales when I was 18.

The drug is clearly very safe for all otherwise they wouldn't sell it. People are not abusing it as there are systems in place to stop all that.. even celebs.

No point tackling our food industry. Literally pointless.

That's my take home message from all of this.

Oh and despite being overweight myself... apparently I'm jealous, thick, fat phobic, conspiracy nut.

I think that just about covers it for this thread.

I concede... but excuse me if that all makes me a little bit sad over here

@shellswirl sorry but what did you expect? Everyone to say "oh shellswirl said they are dangerous drugs so we will stop taking them". Do what you want, people are more informed than you think. Being obese is a massive risk factor for many illnesses and people have decided to run a much smaller risk taking these drugs and be slimmer.

Good luck to you whatever you decide.

If those are the messages you are taking home from all the comments I feel like you should take a deep breath and have a reread with a calmer state of mind.

Good luck @shellswirl and don’t take any of this to heart. Life is too short and it’s not worth it. Best wishes to you

My take away is that we all have to keep an open eye on these medicines- not be entrenched in our views but look at what the evidence is telling. It is early days using these drugs for weight loss to tackle obesity and only time will tell if it will have a positive impact at population level.

For most people diet and exercise does work though, if you choose to stick to it and be consistent for long enough. Actually, there is no long enough about it, its for life, eating healthily and properly is not a 'diet', it has to be a lifestyle.

There will always be those that come under the whataboutery catchment, but for most people, eating a healthy diet and exercising regularly, will get them to and keep them at a healthy weight.

I wonder how many of the people that have rushed to take these drugs have actually tried properly to change thier lifestyle? A lot already have no intention of doing so as they say they will take these drugs for life.

So, its not the diet and exercise that doesn't work, its that people choose not to do it or live healthy lifestyles.

For years on here all we've heard is derision of milkshake diets, low carb and keto, SW/WW etc and the mantra has been calorie counting works, exercise works, healthy lifestyle works, and all of a sudden these are all so impossible and JUST DON'T WORK so whats changed??

Quick fix, is my guess.

I think you’re taking it far too personally. If you think you can tackle it with diet and exercise then fab, knock yourself out, no one is going to force you to take medication you don’t want to take. Other people have made a different decision to you, and that’s fine too. Their decisions aren’t a judgement on yours, and vice versa. People do what is right for them.
I decided that 10 years of fluctuating weight depending on whether I was ‘dieting’ or not, but essentially still being overweight despite my efforts, was enough. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, and I was starting to feel a bit insane. So I’m trying something different.

And I am still continuing to track my calories on an app and do my 3x weekly weight training classes plus 10,000 steps a day while taking the medication, it’s not one or the other. In fact the medication only works alongside a calorie controlled diet, so why would taking the medication mean giving up on those things? I’m anticipating that the exercise will become easier when I’m not constantly battling with gnawing hunger, so double benefits.

Every time you post I think you can’t be any more off the mark, but every time you prove me wrong.

I’m not sure if you’re just goady for the sake of it like you were on the disabled parking thread but I’m leaning more towards that point of view with each comment you make.

You obviously don’t want to listen to experts or science that say long term weight loss for most people is nigh on impossible and you don’t want to listen to people’s experiences. If you really believe most of us haven’t really tried then you’re more small minded than I originally thought.

Even the NHS know it doesn’t work long term, hence them funding a study into it.

https://www.nihr.ac.uk/about-us/document-library.htm?postid=32359

Nobody is saying any of those things, @shellswirl.

I think I'm a fairly standard use case of these drugs. I have been overweight all my adult life. I have always been dieting, losing and regaining the same weight over and over. I took Saxenda for three months, had a break (because I couldn't afford it) and then took it for three months again. That six month period gave me the room to get my body used to functioning on a very low calorie, low carb, low sugar diet. It also gave me a great kickstart which presumably reset my hormone levels (all my PCOS symptoms improved!). Because of that, I was able to continue the way I was eating even after I came off the medication. Three years on and I'm 6.5 stone down and continuing to lose weight at a steady pace. It's "hard work" in that I have to be very strict about what I eat and I can't ever relax about it, plus I have to work at getting my steps in and strength training etc – but it's not impossible, it doesn't feel like a massive burden in my life, I don't feel hugely deprived – and that's all thanks to that period of time on Saxenda.

If you can do the same thing as me without needing the kick start from weight loss drugs, great! Go for it! We're doing the same thing. But for me, Saxenda made it possible and, most importantly, sustainable. And that was well worth the risk.

Nobody is arguing that 'consume less calories' isnt how you lose weight- the difference is that for some people that is very difficult for a whole host of reasons (mental health, hormonal reasons etc).

These drugs make it possible for people who find it difficult for whatever reason be able to consume less calories. It's a tool that assists but it's not a magic bullet- you don't inject and drop 3 stone. It simply helps people do exactly what all the fatphobics on this thread are saying it's so easy to do.

But it’s not a quick fix. You even acknowledged that earlier on in the thread when you were surprised that someone was ‘only’ losing 2lbs a week, which you can manage all by yourself. You still have to follow a low calorie diet, you still have to eat less, and you lose weight by the same mechanism as anyone else who is doing it by eating less. It just helps you to eat less.

I am not sure how you can say that diet and exercise works when clearly it does not for the 26% of people who are obese in this country and the additional 30% who are overweight.

It’s taken me 13m to lose 4.25 stone - hardly a quick fix, is it? I’ve also calorie controlled, exercised daily, eaten protein at every meal during this time… EXACTLY as I was doing prior to taking the medication with ZERO results. The medication makes insulin production and response more efficient and it has made all the difference.

But do carry on jumping on my EVERY effing post and telling me I am wrong when you have NO medical or clinical expertise. My endocrinologist and my GP all support and encourage this. We’ve explained set-point theory, we’ve explained prediabetic/diabetic/and PCOS impacts on hormones, we’ve explained that menopause also impacts the endocrine system. But you keep ignoring our evidence and continually belittling us. JUST STOP.

The problem is that even if your contentions in the first two paragraphs are right, it still wouldn't matter. Diet and exercise do not work, on a population level. It's irrelevant whether they'd work if humans behaved differently to the way we do now. Because that's not happening.

No public health policy that involves people not behaving like we know humans behave is worth anything at all.

No one jumps to medication as a first option.
It’s expensive for a start. People are using it after not being able to lose or sustain losing.
You really aren’t understanding that it’s a medicine to support your ‘eat less move move more’ regime @shellswirl
Why would you cancel the PT? Or MyFitnessPal (although it is rubbish and nutracheck is much better!)
Most people on the medication are tracking cals and protein. Lots of focus on increasing steps and exercise, much easier when the other benefits of mounjaro are kicking in and you are feeling well in yourself and less aches and pains.
I’m on the medication and consistently eating 1000-1200 cals a day and losing 1-2lb a week steadily. I know I couldn’t achieve this on willpower alone as I’d tried.
Aim for most on support thread is a healthy bmi not some unattainable weight they were at 18.

No one jumps to medication as a first option.
It’s expensive for a start

Exactly. I wouldn’t be spending a significant part of my monthly budget, making loads of other sacrifices in the process, if I hadn’t already spent 10 years trying to lose the weight another way.

OP you also seem to be suggesting that the only reason people exercise is to lose weight, and that if they can lose weight without exercising, no one would bother to exercise? That’s a weird view of things. I have always exercised, fat and thin, because I enjoy it and because it’s good for me for all sorts of reasons. You said that we will be teaching our children that they don’t need to exercise because they can use medication to lose weight; no, we should be teaching our children that exercise is beneficial for all sorts of reasons, whatever size you are.

This has been one of the most informative threads in my time on munsnet.
OP although you are divisive, you have allowed people to confirm their experience of being obese. I am now at bmi 31 after losing five stone. You and I weren't medicated but many don't have the ability to do that. I was an alcohol dependant scoffer. Why did I care? Love me fat or fuck off. I take so much medication for autoumime conditions another was too much. I now have a chemo drug for RA. Some said I would die of a heart attack if I took it. The option was not wiping my own bum! If I could walk for another few years so be it. You have willpower, so do I but you never know someone else's story. It doesn't make you lazy or stupid it's just a cost analysis. If people still scoff and purge that's their business.
You do realise we have zero support for mh issues?
When you have time think about helping Mind or such like. We need people with lived experience not naturally slim people or what's the fucking point?
It is a do you my friend. X

Is it true that once you reach healthy bmi, some providers or the nhs won't fund more of the drugs after a certain time frame?

I read that on the weight loss forum on here. And one of the posters said she put the weight back on when she stopped.

Isn't that the exact same thing as "yo yo dieting" ?

I mean after every diet I've ever been on, I maintain for a bit then something triggers a period of not being careful and bam... you are putting weight on again despite good intentions.

So in the case of weight loss (not diabetes) is the drug meant to be taken forever? Or is it only until you reach healthy bmi? Would the nhs still prescribe it to you... even though you reached 9 stone for example?

17% of users put the weight back on, compared to 80-90% of dieters. You have to commit to a lifestyle change after stopping the medication… life everyone is saying, it’s not a ‘quick fix’ or an ‘easy fix’, it’s just tool and still requires effort to lose the weight and keep it off.

@Youdontevengohere

Thanks. Where did you get that figure from? What is the pubmed link?

Does anyone know the actual rules for taking the drugs for weight loss? The nhs website says you can only take it for 2 years.

And even if you pay for it privately you many fall of the wagon because of the irritating side effects/cost. And getting the stuff when it's kept you at 9 stone for the last few months is hard?

And what I read the rebound is a known thing that happens with these drugs. People are likely to regain 2/3 of the weight lost.